The Bread Maker

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barneey
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by barneey » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:42 pm

IPA wrote:
Get yourself a 20ltr BM tube (sold for the 50BM unit to enable shorter brew lengths), which then sits perfectly in a 70 ltr stock pot
The small malt tube for the 50 litre model is 25 litres not 20 litres. It helps a lot because you can get 20% more grist in it.
The markings on the spindle are 20/25/30 litres and 45/50/55 litres
Learnt something else new about the 50ltr BM unit, & from my point of view 25lt is even better =D>
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dean_wales
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by dean_wales » Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Right, I think that I have decided a 50 litre BM clone is the build for me.

I'm trying to gauge how much I can draw from existing vessels and the spares box.

HAVE ALREADY:
Pumps (solar and Kaixin 240v one but is the extra grunt of a chugger or similar important here/for a 50L?).
Pump power supplies.
50% of the plumbing fittings.
Sheet of fine stainless mesh.
Some perforated stainless.
Mr Lard thermowell.
Temperature probes.
Controller options (Could use an STC to start but also have a BrewPi which may work with new firmware).
Cables and commando sockets.
Sight glass if needed.

NEED TO BUY:
50L malt tube
Stockpot (preferably thermopot?) what size do I need 70L or 100L? Where are we getting them these days? I would dearly love to reuse one of my kegs but I cant see it working, quite. 100L kegs seem too rounded in shape and the 50L ones are big enough for a 20L build?
50% of the plumbing fittings
Elements - I have bloomin' millions but none of the flexible ones!

Seems like it would cost a mere fraction of a new BM and be too complicated?

Dean.
Click here for my cider pressing...
Click here to see my 20% Damson port experiment...
Click here for red wine from my allotment vine...

Fil
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by Fil » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:49 pm

Go for it dean_wales ;)
Look forward to reading your progress.. A hacked stc1000 with the mash controller firmware could be a better option than the Pi Imho
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

chris2012
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by chris2012 » Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:52 pm

A MCU dev board would probably be better than the stc1000, as then you could control it however you want, with unlimited steps etc, and you could attach that to the Pi.

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dean_wales
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by dean_wales » Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:32 pm

One comparison I cannot work out is the upwards circulation of the mash in these systems. Surely when you shut off the pump and lift the gran tube/basket out you totally disturb the grain bed and the now downwards draining (or even mini sparging) sends a whole load of trub into your kettle full of shiny clear wort??

Dean.
Click here for my cider pressing...
Click here to see my 20% Damson port experiment...
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IPA
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by IPA » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:22 am

dean_wales wrote:One comparison I cannot work out is the upwards circulation of the mash in these systems. Surely when you shut off the pump and lift the gran tube/basket out you totally disturb the grain bed and the now downwards draining (or even mini sparging) sends a whole load of trub into your kettle full of shiny clear wort??

Dean.
First of all you will need two circulation pumps because one will not be powerful enough to do the job and I recommend that you buy the same ones that Speidel use on account of their size and power. I can't see what you mean about trub. The draining of the grain bed is no different to the sparging of a normal mash tun. In any case trub arrives much later in the process and is by the hot and cold breaks. Good luck with the build.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

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dean_wales
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by dean_wales » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:03 pm

Would a chugger or similar pump really not be up to the job? That is a surprise and I find the idea less appealing with two pumps.

Sorry, perhaps I misused the word trub there. My point is that when you lift the malt pipe or inner stock pot up to drain, surely the wort that drains out is really cloudy as it has not flowed through a settled grain bed. In fact the grain bed itself would also slump to the bottom of the tube?

Although I am not paranoid about a clear wort, having grain matter in the boil volume is not good for flavor and I don't want to take a step backwards in this regard.

Dean.
Click here for my cider pressing...
Click here to see my 20% Damson port experiment...
Click here for red wine from my allotment vine...

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barneey
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by barneey » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:28 pm

I never got around to trying out my single chugger pump /dual outlet with my build as I need it really for the big kit, I have simply swapped it out for 2 of the BM style pumps.

Image

Still need to test out the system but am still awaiting the control panel.
Hair of the dog, bacon, butty.
Hops, cider pips & hello.

Name the Movie + song :)

Waffty
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by Waffty » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 pm

dean_wales wrote:Would a chugger or similar pump really not be up to the job? That is a surprise and I find the idea less appealing with two pumps.

Sorry, perhaps I misused the word trub there. My point is that when you lift the malt pipe or inner stock pot up to drain, surely the wort that drains out is really cloudy as it has not flowed through a settled grain bed. In fact the grain bed itself would also slump to the bottom of the tube?

Although I am not paranoid about a clear wort, having grain matter in the boil volume is not good for flavor and I don't want to take a step backwards in this regard.

Dean.
So the wort hasn't drained out of the grain bed but it has been pushed up through the grain bed i.e the pump (pumps) suck the wort from outside of the malt tube and force it up through the bottom of the malt tube, then it flows over the top. After a few cycles, the wort coming over the top of the malt tube is crystal clear. Then once the malt tube is lifted out, from my experiences the runnings remain clear, as the grain bed has already been compacted. I leave mine drain for a few minutes, before removing it and let it continue to drip over a clean bowl and even then it's still clear.

It may be worth noting that I use the 'additional' stainless screens (mesh) which I attach to the main filters/screens, with either copper or stainless wire.
Fermenting - Nothing
Conditioning - Nothing
Drinking - Tea
Planning - Everything, if only I had the time ... !!

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IPA
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by IPA » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:01 am

Why do need to attach the filters? That was only necessary when using the original cloth filters.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Be who you are
Because those that mind don't matter
And those that matter don't mind

Waffty
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by Waffty » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:48 pm

IPA wrote:Why do need to attach the filters? That was only necessary when using the original cloth filters.
Good question, as I bought my unit second hand, complete with fine stainless 'screen' I can only assume, that since the main filter plates have 3mm holes, then you need something 'extra' to stop the smaller particles making it out of the malt tube and into the pump. They are sold as fine screens by all the stockists, so it's not something specific to my machine.

Personally, I've had enough cutting my fingers on the rough edges and even when fitted, there's still the potential to loose malt thought to small gap between the filter plate and malt tube, as the screen sits loosely on the top (unless you tie it down). So the mother in law has knocked me up so food grade fine mesh screen, in the shape of a shower hat. It's basically 2 circles of the filter mesh, sewn together, with a hole in the centre and a draw cord on the outside (all food grade). The hole is placed over the filter plate ferrule and the drawn together and tide on the other side. As it lips over the outer edge, it also helps to pack the gap between the malt tube and filter plate. I've not tried it yet but to be honest, I can't see what could go wrong other than the mesh clogging, in which case we can always go the next size hole up. Sadly not my idea, it was copied or be it to a different design from one of the Aussie brewers, this is the thread not the best pictures but if you look closed, you'll get my drift.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/55813 ... ster-pics/
Fermenting - Nothing
Conditioning - Nothing
Drinking - Tea
Planning - Everything, if only I had the time ... !!

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dean_wales
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by dean_wales » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:07 pm

barneey wrote:I have simply swapped it out for 2 of the BM style pumps.
Still need to test out the system but am still awaiting the control panel.
How do those pumps differ from a chugger for example? Do both pumps do the same job i.e. draw wort from outside the malt tube and push it into the base of the tube? Or do they have seperate jobs/run inline?

What control panel are you getting/making? I'm undecided between a simple Auber PID, an Arduino based BM clone like matho, one of the american fancy controllers like BrewBoss/Brewtroller or using my BrewPi Spark. There seems to be an abundance of options!

EDIT: Looks like the Open Ardbir project is the most alive and accesible one. Seems to replicate most of the original BM functionality (not the new one) and costs 69 euro for the bare bones system without the SSR and sensor etc, 89 euros with them. Facebook page hereand purchase page here.

Dean.
Last edited by dean_wales on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Click here for my cider pressing...
Click here to see my 20% Damson port experiment...
Click here for red wine from my allotment vine...

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barneey
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by barneey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:21 pm

The pumps do exactly the same job as the chugger.

Chugger was a single inlet + dual out, the two singles have their own inlet and outlet, in theory you should get a better flow of wort with 2 inlets? but as I never got around to testing the chugger on the system I will never know.

As for controller I have gone for the Lael control panel see the Aussie HB site for details, I took that decision last year (still no controller though) so cant really advise further on that question.
Hair of the dog, bacon, butty.
Hops, cider pips & hello.

Name the Movie + song :)

Fil
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by Fil » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:51 pm

also there is the stc1000p hack which uses the cooling relay as a pump controller ;)
though like barneey I went for a lael controller too after a few years of not quite finishing off my own arduino solutions (neat boxing is an art/skill i don't posses)

is Lael aka Matho??? i suspect they are both one and the same chap from looking at their code ??????????????????
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

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dean_wales
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Re: The Bread Maker

Post by dean_wales » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:27 pm

I think the two have the same architecture/design but the Open Ardbir now has a better four line display.

From my Google and forum bashing (they really do love BIAB in Aus don't they!) the new all-in-one Open Ardbir package seems to be the best choice of arduino controller. It doesn't come in a case mind but that suits me just fine. I say that mainly as it seems to be so well supported/devloped with their Facebook account being very active and firmware improvements seemingly coming thick and fast.

I have messaged them asking if I can buy one without the SSRs and probes etc which I already have to save a few quid.

Some videos...
General overview
Another overview
Brewday in timelapse
Brewday faked with no grain sso that workings are visible
Click here for my cider pressing...
Click here to see my 20% Damson port experiment...
Click here for red wine from my allotment vine...

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