Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

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Brewing in Brittany

Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by Brewing in Brittany » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:53 pm

Hi
I have the following dry yeasts:
Safale S-04,
Nottingham,
Windsor
Neales Classic English Ale
Mangrove Jack M79 Burton Union
and MJ M42 New World Strong

Which would be the best on to pop into an Old Peculier clone?

cheers
Ted

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john luc
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by john luc » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:59 pm

Start with the windsor and after 48 hours pitch the nottingham.
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by BackO'Th'Shed » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:51 pm

I just brewed my second attempt at an OP clone yesterday. Used a different yeast this time which I'm hoping will get me much closer - my first attempt didn't have the fruitiness of the original. I swapped out the Nottingham yeast for a yeast from Brewlab which was suggested by them for an Old Peculier clone (their code 1 yeast). One thing I noticed from the starter before pitching was a huge fruity aroma that was almost like what you get from a Belgian yeast (it smelled very similar to a Belgian Blonde Ale I brewed recently with the Mangrove Jacks Belgian Ale yeast). I had recently read an article (http://www.britishbrewer.com/2010/02/re ... version-1/) which suggested using a Belgian Ale yeast and discounted it at the time at the time, but it might be worth a try? I can certainly see where the author is coming from based on my experience yesterday. Maybe mash a bit higher though if you do use a Belgian strain to keep the beer from drying out too much.

Happy to share my clone recipe if you would find that helpful.

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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by PeeBee » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:58 pm

BackO'Th'Shed wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:51 pm
... I had recently read an article (http://www.britishbrewer.com/2010/02/re ... version-1/) which suggested using a Belgian Ale yeast ...
Most likely nonsense. I tried it and it didn't help. But I have figured why I was unsuccessful brewing an "Old Perculiar" clone, and that was down to another likely "myth" - that OP is primed with treacle. I'd always used molasses (less refined), not treacle, but couldn't figure why my clone was always "flabby" in flavour (pleasant, but not beer). It was the molasses which created a smooth coating over the taste (I believe liquorice has that effect too?).

Good in the old days when the treacle would cover up other "inefficiencies" in the brewing.
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Brewing in Brittany

Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by Brewing in Brittany » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:34 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. Brewing on Wednesday so no time to get any other yeasts apart from the ones I have listed. I was thinking the Winsor might give the desired fruitiness but I may follow the suggestion to pitch Nottingham a couple of days later.
My recipe is basically the Graham Wheeler CAMRA, but instead of white sugar, has 500g dark Belgian candi rock and 50g of black treacle which I hope will give the desired richness. It was meant to be molasses but I can't see much difference if there's only 50g involved.
Any more suggestions would be gratefully received.
Cheers
Ted

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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by alix101 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:00 pm

Got given this year's ago off Scotty it was excellent.
Old Peculier

Brewlength - 23l

Malts:
Pale - 4.97kg (83.6%)
Crystal 55L - 0.47kg (7.9%)
Brown Sugar - 0.26kg (4.4%)
Chocolate malt - 0.15kg (2.6%)
Carafa 3 - 0.09kg (1.5%)

Hops:
Fuggle - 18g (9.2IBU) @ 60 mins
Challenger - 28g (24.3IBU) @ 60 mins
Fuggle - 10g @ 0 mins

Yeast:
Safale S-04

Est EBC - 60
Est IBU - 33.5
Est OG - 1.062
Est FG - 1.016 - 1.018
Est ABV - 6%

Mash at 66-67c for 60 mins, boil for 60 mins. Ferment at about 20c so the yeast produces some fruity flavours. Jobs a good un!
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by PeeBee » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:17 pm

Brewing in Brittany wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:34 pm
Thanks for the suggestions. Brewing on Wednesday so no time to get any other yeasts apart from the ones I have listed. I was thinking the Winsor might give the desired fruitiness but I may follow the suggestion to pitch Nottingham a couple of days later.
My recipe is basically the Graham Wheeler CAMRA, but instead of white sugar, has 500g dark Belgian candi rock and 50g of black treacle which I hope will give the desired richness. It was meant to be molasses but I can't see much difference if there's only 50g involved.
Any more suggestions would be gratefully received.
Cheers
Ted
I got GWs book a few weeks ago specifically because it has researched (I hope) recipe for OP with NO black treacle or molasses. In fact it has no sugar additions at all so don't know where you got the "white sugar" from?

I think the idea of adding the Nottingham yeast late is to get better attenuation as Windsor alone may finish a tad early. I'd just use the Windsor and judge for yourself whether you'd benefit from the extra Nottingham addition next time you make it. Or as "Alix101" suggests use the S-04 which is a good all-round British style yeast.

If you do use black treacle don't do what I've done and leave it 35 years before figuring I don't need it.
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by PeeBee » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Brewing in Brittany wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:34 pm
... 50g of black treacle which I hope will give the desired richness. It was meant to be molasses but I can't see much difference if there's only 50g involved. ...
Looking back at my recipes I was using "only" 60g of molasses. I used molasses because I thought it had a less severe flavour, but others will argue with that judgement. But you will notice 50g of whatever you choose. You may not immediately identify the flavour as molasses/treacle, and may even like it? But in time ...
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by jaroporter » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:49 pm

i believe (though someone may correct me) that earlier editions of GW's books may have had different recipes? either way, i wouldn't get too hung up on the exact grainbill if one is going to use a dried yeast to replicate the brew. yeast plays a much bigger part in a brew than a lot of people give it credit for, so if not using a similar yeast to the original then the grains or hops will have to be adjusted to hit the same flavours..
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by Brewing in Brittany » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:28 am

Hi jaroporter, I agee , whilst the grain bill is important, the yeast is the thing, I brewed split batch IPA and put a West Coast in one half and a Saison in the other the difference between them was amazing.
Which of my dry yeasts would you use???
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by MTW » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:18 pm

In the absence of the Brewlab offering, I would try to keep the yeast as quiet as possible in the end result, so S04 or Nottingham both at the cool end for the first couple of days (17-18C) and even two sachets if you have them, rehydrated carefully. I'd pick S04 out of the two. If your grain bill is anywhere near the mark, then at least you've got less chance of the yeast overwhelming things.

Having done the same recipe (not OP) three times recently, but with different yeasts, there's no doubt how much difference it makes. Chalk and cheese. Keep it clean this time, and get hold of the Theakston's strain another time... if it's the taste you're after.

PS I like the look of alix's recipe!
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by jaroporter » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:15 am

Brewing in Brittany wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:28 am
Which of my dry yeasts would you use???
really hard for me to say as i really dislike direct pitched dried yeasts (nottingham for sure is okay 2nd gen repitched), so i'd have to cop out and suggest you go for whichever you like the best!
hope the brew goes well today
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Re: Which Dry Yeast for Old Peculier Clone

Post by super_simian » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:29 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:58 pm
BackO'Th'Shed wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:51 pm
... I had recently read an article (http://www.britishbrewer.com/2010/02/re ... version-1/) which suggested using a Belgian Ale yeast ...
Most likely nonsense.
There's info out there which shows the typical "Belgian" style yeasts are likely descended from the strong ales of Scottish ale breweries, so maybe not so nonsensical?

I get a lot of banana and red apple esters in OP, and other UK strong ales, so finding an estery yeast and giving it a bit of warmth doesn't seem crazy. My recent Old Ale used a big whack of dark invert and the new-ish Danstar ESB dry yeast at 22C, and it's damn fine after a couple of months in the bottle.

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