Malt Miller - Cryo hops

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grunter
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Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by grunter » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:36 pm

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... uanot-50g/

Just bagged some of these cryo hops from the malt miller ... great website..

Has any used these? Exciting opportunities for split batches here...

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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by Jim » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:45 am

Never come across that before!

I'd be interested to hear how you get on with them when you use them in a brew. :)
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by Dads_Ale » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:49 am

I am giving some a go today.
It will be pretty hoppy as I believe you have to use the entire packet as they start to oxidise rapidly when exposed to air.

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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by MTW » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:26 am

I've used them once before (Simcoe) and I've got some cryo powdered Mosaic (slightly different, not MM) in my current brew. It sounds like supply to hombrewers in the UK may be quite limited.

I've read a lot of good reports on US websites and they're certainly the most intense smelling packets I've ever opened. I saw at least on report of them producing a slightly 'danker', though more intense, effect. I would say my Simcoe perhaps supported that suggestion, though Simcoe probably had a more earthy edge to its fruitiness than some of the big New World hops anyway, and it was the first time I'd used SImcoe of any sort. Inconclusive.

My current brew is getting two massive doses of the Mosaic powder along with a few other pellets, so I will have more to report on that. It mixed straight into the kraeusen in an FV-hop yesterday, leading to a green yeasty swamp on top. I carefully stirred it back in a few hours later, just to ensure some suspension.

The 'use half what you normally would' guidance is probably a good one, and it would probably be a waste to put them in the boil.
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by grunter » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:24 pm

Good stuff guys,

I'd be very interested to here back on your results ... its a little tricky with the volume of hop and controlling the bitterness whilst using it all in one go!

does anyone know how long it it can wait before it oxidizes, i think this will determine how you can use it ?

I like a full aroma / taste but not much more than 30 IBU...

I was thinking of adding 50G at 60 deg c and then the remaining 50g at pitching temp. but that could be 20mins, would that be too long?
i'd quite to do a single hop as i've not tried ekunot on its own.

or using it as dry hop in 2no 5 gallons brews 50 g each.

or simply banging in the full 100g at the whirlpool at 60 degress c. but i think this could pick up too much bitterness.

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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by orlando » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:13 pm

I've used Equanot, Simcoe, Cascade and Citra with this type of hop. Fantastic for aroma and that's the place to use them - late hopping and dry hopping in the fermentor. Be careful with your bittering charge, you don't need much. I will use enough leaf (to act as a prefilter) to give me 10 IBU's. It's quite a surprise to taste how much bitterness is imparted by late hops and even dry hopping. You do need to use them asap as they oxidise very quickly, so over 1 brew is ideal. Incidentally one of the problems of getting HB quantities means breaking open bigger bales by the HBS and repackaging and the manufacturers don't like this, hence there is something of a dearth (MM is now out of everything). Anyone with a source let me know.
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by grunter » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:54 am

Interesting ... really good point on bitterness orlando, I was amazed how bitter my brews turned out when using whirlpool only bittering/ dry hopping - one lesson i learnt was that hops aways impart some bitterness whenever they are used

I'm experimenting with a technique of doing a 60l brew then splitting it into 2no. fermenters with 2no. chilling coils to 60c and adding two sets of hops to get two different brews. I'd added 100G of 12% aa at 60c add another 100G at 30c and 100G dry hops wort was 1062 FG ... Obviously this is a stupid amount of hops but thought they'd be little or no bitterness .. little did i know!

wow! at first it was like too much chilli in your dinner ... once it you tasted the bitterness there was no getting away from it ... but leveled nicely after 2 months and still had good aroma. Repeated with lower AA hops at 60c again better aroma and the bitteness seems less harsh.

I'm gonna try the cryo hops as dry hop only do you think the full 100G will give yo too much bitterness.

next time

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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by orlando » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:37 am

grunter wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:54 am
I'm gonna try the cryo hops as dry hop only do you think the full 100G will give yo too much bitterness.
Mine have come in 50g packs and the AA% is massive due to how they are processed, so treat 50g as 100g leaf. I can't honestly say what impact 100g of them would be as I have only used circa 25-30 as a dry hop.

With the cryo hops it is possible that the bacterial load they carry is small if not non-existent given the process. Less so with leaf hops. This is why I don't go a lot lower than 80c for the whirlpool, sure you may lose some aroma but I can make it up with the dry hop. Better than introducing bacteria and ruining the lot. If you're going to dry hop in the fermentor, particularly with leaf, be aware of the inevitable introduction of oxygen. With leaf I would dry hop earlier in the fermentation whilst the yeast can still pick up the oxygen. With Cryo I think you can leave it later. I have found with that product if you dry hop early then a lot of aroma can blow off. Depends on the hop to a certain extent but it is a pretty good rule of thumb.
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by MTW » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:16 pm

An update on mine: I will soon be chilling down an NEIPA that had 400g of various pellets/powder (500g equivalent, or 23g/l, of traditional pellets) in 21L starting batch size, though it will be more like 16L by the time it's in the bottles, with all the hop sludge! Not a cheap brew. Over half of that was for dry hopping, and of that, 100g was cryo powder (equivalent to 200g). Lots of whirlpooling at various temperatures, then the first dry hop went in during fermentation, while the second went in secondary at expected FG. Both had 50g cryo in them. I split the second dry hop into two stages, separated by 15 hours, putting 50g of the cryo in first, just so I could see the effect separately. Even after those 15 hours, it was very obvious. Immensely fruity.

I really hope the cryo gets back into stock for homebrew use!
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by MTW » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:44 pm

orlando wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:13 pm
I've used Equanot, Simcoe, Cascade and Citra with this type of hop. Fantastic for aroma and that's the place to use them - late hopping and dry hopping in the fermentor. Be careful with your bittering charge, you don't need much. I will use enough leaf (to act as a prefilter) to give me 10 IBU's. It's quite a surprise to taste how much bitterness is imparted by late hops and even dry hopping. You do need to use them asap as they oxidise very quickly, so over 1 brew is ideal. Incidentally one of the problems of getting HB quantities means breaking open bigger bales by the HBS and repackaging and the manufacturers don't like this, hence there is something of a dearth (MM is now out of everything). Anyone with a source let me know.
I notice that Northern Brewer sells the YCH Cryo hops to homebrewers in America, trusting them with just a 1oz pack at a time. That 1oz costs $4.99 (~£3.50). If that's the way it goes over here, I just hope the pricing is sensible, and stays in the range of £6-7 per 50g, rather than having to overpay for smaller amounts!
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Re: Malt Miller - Cryo hops

Post by orlando » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 am

MTW wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:44 pm
That 1oz costs $4.99 (~£3.50).
That's less than 30g, by the time you get them here...... what price then? :roll:
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

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