Some Brew Panel questions

LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:54 pm

In my opinion RIMS is the way to go but it’s subjective. Pros and cons of them both but for my system RIMS was simpler to pipe up and has better control.

It works flawlessly for me and would disagree with much of what is stated in that link.

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Sorcerer · Post by **Sorcerer** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:11 am

[quote="LeeH"]In my opinion RIMS is the way to go but it’s subjective. Pros and cons of them both but for my system RIMS was simpler to pipe up and has better control.

It works flawlessly for me and would disagree with much of what is stated in that link.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[/quote]Have you seen the flowmeter /flow switch used by Blichmann in their rims set up, its a very neat design?
https://www.beveragefactory.com/homebre ... meter.html

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Sorcerer · Post by **Sorcerer** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:14 am

Here it is in situ[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201907 ... caa805.jpg[/IMG]

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LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:19 am

That’s very neat. Makes it easy to protect your element in the RIMS tube.

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PeeBee · Post by **PeeBee** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:08 pm

Sorcerer wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:14 am
Here it is in situ …

I protected my RIMS element by having a temperature probe and level sensor just after the element. It functioned "in anger" within a few days of trying it! The sensors don't allow the element to energise past a certain temperature and when there's no liquid. The Blichmann device is certainly neater, but one hell of a price.

The temperature probe also allows the associated PID to control the RIMS element (for HERMS the sensor is in the HLT). Before this triggers a "where do I position temperature probes" debate (RIMS or HERMS), here's one I prepared earlier:

viewtopic.php?f=60&t=80501

The contributor "EINBREW" is no longer with this forum and his posts are deleted (his posts were commercially influenced anyway). It was interesting because it described a "feedback mechanism" which I was ignoring (ignorant of) in my initial ideas of the best position (sensor in HLT).

Sorcerer · Post by **Sorcerer** » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:10 pm

[quote="PeeBee"][quote=Sorcerer post_id=844575 time=1562224452 user_id=16509]
Here it is in situ …
[/quote]
I protected my RIMS element by having a temperature probe and level sensor just after the element. It functioned "in anger" within a few days of trying it! The sensors don't allow the element to energise past a certain temperature and when there's no liquid. The Blichmann device is certainly neater, but one hell of a price.

The temperature probe also allows the associated PID to control the RIMS element (for HERMS the sensor is in the HLT). Before this triggers a "where do I position temperature probes" debate (RIMS or HERMS), here's one I prepared earlier:

[url]viewtopic.php?f=60&t=80501[/url]

The contributor "EINBREW" is no longer with this forum and his posts are deleted (his posts were commercially influenced anyway). It was interesting because it described a "feedback mechanism" which I was ignoring (ignorant of) in my initial ideas of the best position (sensor in HLT).[/quote]A quick look on Ali Express found this one, but it's rated at 60c I'm sure they have other higher temp options available
€ 8,26 8%OFF | LZS-15 G1/2 DN15 40-400L/H 60-600L/H 80-800L/H 100-1000L/H Water Flow Meter Indicator Counter Rotameter Liquid Flowmeter
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/HGOJ8so

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jamieN · Post by **jamieN** » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:32 pm

Thanks again Lee for the diagram. I've been on holiday so beer geek time has been at a minimum. Although I did look at it on my phone which wasnt easy so I printed it off and now it is a lot clearer.
I take it your switches LEDs and PIDs run off 24v hence the 0 and 24v lines.
Your 240 lines are L1 N1 and 2L1 which supply your pumps and elements. Do you run both BK elements at the same time or is one a standby/boost item. As I said in my first post I have the switches LEDs and PIDs but they are all 240v will this cause any major problems.
What I can omit from your design is the rims element and flow switch, timer which you already have and the trip LED or is that advisable.
As the rims/herms debate was going back and forward I came to a though that with herms is you are using the the water in the HLT to raise mash temp another important thing that is happening is that you are heating sparge water at the same time.
Where rims on the other hand your are heating the mash only. Unless using a grainfather type affair where you are heating the mash and sparge water. Is grainfather classed as a rims or can it also be called a reciculating BIAB. As its all done in the same vessel.
For sourcing internal items 5 x MCBs, 5 x contactor DIN rail terminals and cables would it be advisable to go Ebay or expert electrical as PeeBee linked to earlier.

Jamie

LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:47 am

jamieN wrote:Thanks again Lee for the diagram. I've been on holiday so beer geek time has been at a minimum. Although I did look at it on my phone which wasnt easy so I printed it off and now it is a lot clearer.
NO PROBLEM

I take it your switches LEDs and PIDs run off 24v hence the 0 and 24v lines.
YES

Your 240 lines are L1 N1 and 2L1 which supply your pumps and elements. Do you run both BK elements at the same time or is one a standby/boost item.
BOTH TO HEAT AND BOTH TO BOIL IN THE WINTER, SUMMER TIME JUST 1.

As I said in my first post I have the switches LEDs and PIDs but they are all 240v will this cause any major problems.
NO

What I can omit from your design is the rims element and flow switch, timer which you already have and the trip LED or is that advisable.
ALL ABOVE ARE FINE

As the rims/herms debate was going back and forward I came to a though that with herms is you are using the the water in the HLT to raise mash temp another important thing that is happening is that you are heating sparge water at the same time.
SPARGE TEMP IS 10+ HIGHER. RIMS IS SUPERIOR IMO BUT EACH TO THIER OWN.

Where rims on the other hand your are heating the mash only.
NOT REALLY, AS YOUR HLT WOULD HAVE A NEW SET POINT WHILE RIMS IS RECIRCULATING

Unless using a grainfather type affair where you are heating the mash and sparge water. Is grainfather classed as a rims or can it also be called a reciculating BIAB. As its all done in the same vessel.
GOOD QUESTION, I GUESS ITS A HYBRID OF BOTH...SORT OFF.

For sourcing internal items 5 x MCBs, 5 x contactor DIN rail terminals and cables would it be advisable to go Ebay or expert electrical as PeeBee linked to earlier.
DONT BUT CIRCUIT PROTECTION FROM ALI EXPRESS ETC, USE A ELECTRICAL WHOLESALER. IF YOU WANT TO GO BUDGET LOOK AT CHINT, ITS CHEAP AND WELL PRICED.

Jamie

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LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:48 am

https://www.screwfix.com/search?search= ... cat7230021

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jamieN · Post by **jamieN** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:35 pm

It would seem silly to buy from unknown sources so I'll get the mcbs and contactors from closer to home cant take the risk and the hassle of waiting.
Thanks for pointing out the chint.
How much tripping headroom should there be for the elements assuming they run at 12A should I use a 16A contactor and mcb.
Pumps I assume would be ok with 6A.
Would mains in be 16 or 25.
Would 2.5mm cable be fine for high power and 0.5 for switches and LEDS.
I see you have wago connectors on the right of your panel. Is that just to have less cables running back to terminals.

LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:10 pm

16A for a 3kW element.

The Waco blocks are linking out the speed controllers as 1 of them failed so i disconnected both until I get around to replacing them.

2.5 tri rated for heating, 1.0 for the control.

Your total current (FLC) would depend on the total elements plus pumps etc and if you are using them all at once.

Ensure additional protection with an upfront RCD.

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jamieN · Post by **jamieN** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:38 am

Just for reference a chugger pump on brew builder pulls 2A and a 3kw element is 12.5A so theres 14.5A so it looks like I will need to fit a 16A supply with rcd it all adds up.
I intend to use powercon connectors for all my leads in and out of panel as that seems to be the norm. Cant say I've seen them used on probe leads as they very small leads.

Post by **themadhippy** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:39 am

I intend to use powercon connectors for all my leads in and out of panel as that seems to be the norm

Only use powercons for 240v wiring,dont use them for anything else,otherwise theres a big risk of getting things mixed up and 240v appearing were it shouldn't.For probes xlr's are good option,or if you want a soldering challenge mini xlrs are very compact.

jamieN · Post by **jamieN** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:49 pm

For 2x elements 2x pumps at 240v what's to stop and accidental plug in on the wrong socket. In an ideal they in theory shouldn't be unplugged unless for cleaning. I'm aware they are different keyed for models but if they are all true1 there could be confusion.

LeeH · Post by **LeeH** » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:38 pm

jamieN wrote:For 2x elements 2x pumps at 240v what's to stop and accidental plug in on the wrong socket. In an ideal they in theory shouldn't be unplugged unless for cleaning. I'm aware they are different keyed for models but if they are all true1 there could be confusion.

Dymo tape.

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