Off Taste Problem

[BertieBassett]

Hi, this is my first post so be gentle

I've been brewing AG for about 5 years now and recently i have had a couple of batches that have had a weird/awful taste once they have been bottle conditioned, to the extent that two 23 litre batches have been dumped

both beers where similar in style but different yeasts and both had a funny smell as soon as you open the bottle and then when you taste it, its belgiumy with a slight vinegar wiff. also one batch, i think a proper job clone even smelt weird at the bottling stage

any ideas? I star san everything before use, I have a fermentation fridge so temperature is kept with in 1 degree. i don't secondary ferment.

its got be really baffled

[guypettigrew]

If it's only just happened after 5 years of all grain brewing it must mean something has changed with your process. Without you even realising it!

You've no doubt done a Google search and found vinegary tastes are usually the result of an infection.

Serious thinking about any changes in process would be in order. As would a complete strip down and clean of your gear. Not least would be a strip down of any ball valves and other connectors. Replace any PTFE tape you're using to seal threads, replace any hoses, strip down any pump heads-if you use pumps.

Do you have a stainless steel fermenter or a plastic one?

Have a think about all this, then get back to us.

Good luck--you'll sort it!

Guy

[vacant]

I'd suggest adding another sanitiser to the deep clean. Bleach or Videne (antiseptic solution, NOT the surgical scrub or alcoholic tincture) make up a solution and soak for an hour.

[BertieBassett]

[quote=vacant post_id=845843 time=1569262889 user_id=743]
I'd suggest adding another sanitiser to the deep clean. Bleach or Videne (antiseptic solution, NOT the surgical scrub or alcoholic tincture) make up a solution and soak for an hour.
[/quote]

i think your right, never used bleach before though, how much do i use?

[BertieBassett]

[quote=guypettigrew post_id=845841 time=1569260107 user_id=5521]
If it's only just happened after 5 years of all grain brewing it must mean something has changed with your process. Without you even realising it!

You've no doubt done a Google search and found vinegary tastes are usually the result of an infection.

Serious thinking about any changes in process would be in order. As would a complete strip down and clean of your gear. Not least would be a strip down of any ball valves and other connectors. Replace any PTFE tape you're using to seal threads, replace any hoses, strip down any pump heads-if you use pumps.

Do you have a stainless steel fermenter or a plastic one?

Have a think about all this, then get back to us.

Good luck--you'll sort it!

Guy
[/quote]

i'm going to deep clean everything, gonna try the bleach i think, i do regularly stripe down my kit and soak it in cask cleaner.

i used plastic fermenters but have just brought some glass 6 gallon ones, so will be switching.

thank for all your advise

[vacant]

never used bleach before though, how much do i use?

Start here

Thin bleach comes in varying strengths, unfortunately not always accurately listed on the container. So just make it up a bit stronger as you're going to rinse it anyway.

I use Starsan mostly, but I store my no-chill container/fermenter full of bleach solution. When I first started with that method I worried about the residual smell after rinsing but it was really just the air in the container that had an odour. That got displaced rapidly when the container was filled. Never had any off-flavours.

Taste the water from the final rinse to convince yourself you've done a thorough job.

[Mjr6313]

I use the baby straliser bleach its like 49p from home bargains or BnM and has instruction for brewing on the side never had a problem.

[IPA]

An important point to remember is that Starsan is effective in killing bacteria it does not kill wild yeasts.
If you are using chlorine based sanitisers rinse thoroughly after use otherwise your beer will taste like Dettol disinfectant.

[Jocky]

I would look particularly hard at anything that touches your beer from the moment it starts to leave your boil kettle until it's in the bottle.

Is there any place that your beer touches that you can't see to check if it's spotlessly clean (e.g. Taps)? If you have a tap on your boiler or fermenter then take it apart - you'll probably find a disgusting load of mold or something in there if you haven't cleaned it recently.

Once you've checked every nook and cranny and it's all clean then anything plastic needs to be soaked in bleach/iodophor as already mentioned.

[Robwalkeragain]

I’d probably agree, belgium flavours sound like wild yeast which won’t go away with most routine cleaners/contact times.
Heat is the best solution if it’s possible. 77c+ will easy batter it into oblivion.
If your FVs are looking nackered, replace them.

[Kev888]

Yeah, from the description it sounds most likely to be an infection of some kind, probably wild yeast. With that in mind don't rely on weak no-rinse disinfectants like starsan; it is handy but nowhere near the most comprehensive option.

The scope is almost endless but to echo much of what has been said: Thoroughly deep clean, rinse and then disinfect or sterilise everything that you can from the boiler tap onwards. Pay particular attention to things with scratches, nooks and crannies or that you can't see into - pumps, valves and joins/fittings are prime candidates (even the boiler's) disassemble them if at all possible and ideally change them if you can't.

Also consider anything that may be re-infecting equipment on brew day or thereafter - like unboiled wort running into pumps and hoses, grain dust floating into the FV etc etc.

Though that said, it is hard to judge what an off-taste might be from a forum post so as was also suggested, be suspicious of anything new or that might have changed without being obvious.

[Cobnut]

Slightly off topic, but I couldn't resist...

Do you think the Supreme Court verdict today has left a "slight off taste" in the PM's mouth?

I'll get my coat.

[BertieBassett]

Thanks for all your suggestions, i have to say that my brew room smelt more like a swimming pool at the weekend, deep clean down and first brew after clean done.

i have also been looking at my water profile where i brew, i have found that the water in considerably harder and more alkaline compared to my water at home. my home water come from a surface reservoir and the water in my brew room is from a underground aquifer do you think this will make much difference as it only seems to be paler brews that i am getting this off taste?

[Eric]

Pale beers made with highly alkaline water will not usually be as good as they could or should, but will not make a beer that tastes "off". However, it will make it more difficult to diagnose other faults in the beer. As a priority you should measure the amount of alkalinity present and reduce it to a level suitable for pale beers.

The .pdf file at https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/wp-conte ... S-2018.pdf gives a brief explanation.

[Kev888]

Hmm, only happening with pale beers would make it far less likely to be an infection (unless perhaps the pale ones you make are simply more subtle, allowing the unwanted flavour through more). So I'll probably change my mind there.

There aren't all that many differences in process between light and dark beers, so of the things that do differ I agree the water has to be worth checking out as Eric says. Are you using the water as it is, or does it get treated in any way?