" Ditch's Stout " Master Class .....

[WalesAles]

Well, This should be interesting!
FV 5. I topped it off to four gallons, when it hit me; I hadn't put a crushie in that water!
Year after year. Little by little. Push. Push. Push. Push those parameters. Ditch Shitter will bring you The Truth

Hello Ditch,
Have you ever made a Stout without a Crushie? Or is your water that bad that you HAVE to use one?
Just asking because I never use them. I know that water quality varies all around the country, but is it just a failsafe in your brews or does the water really need that Crushie?
Please don`t take this in the wrong way, I am not criticising your brewing methods, just curious!
WA

[CJR]

Have to say my thoughts mimic WA's. I also remember you saying you would deliberately try to ruin a brew, just to see what the yeast could do but I can't (if I recall your comment about that correctly) think you'd be the kind of person to drink a pissed in brew. However I can see you not using a tabbie to start the process off gently. I've never used one myself, my thoughts being that what comes out of my tap is checked by my water company.

And if THAT goes wrong, I could earn a lot more by suing the arse off them for failing to provide undrinkable water...

[Exiled Bradfordian]

This poses quite an interesting question - when does the crushie need to be added?

I bought some Campden tablets last time I was up north, but I still have only the one FV (slowly but surely bringing the Mrs round to me buying another one). Ergo, not possible for me to treat the water before adding it to the kit. I just figured if I made the kit up, then added the crushie, then the yeast, all would be ok.

I appreciate the water's normally treated first - but I didn't realise it was a "generally accepted no-no" to do it after. Is it?

I shall be watching with interest to what happens to FV5

[Ditch]

Have you ever made a Stout without a Crushie? Or is your water that bad that you HAVE to use one?

Wales, my man; I don't believe I ever have made my stuff, without the crushie. Nor have I ever ~ yet ~ made it, having stuck my bare foot into the wort.

Yes, yes. I know: You're now thinking, " You toy with me, oh wise and exulted one?! " Not at all.

See; I'd never think of making beer without chucking a crushie in the tap water. Why not? (Deep breath .....) Because; A f**k off great pot of campden tablets costs us less than a single brews worth of bottled water. They're certainly a f**k load easier to transport. Store. And leave less waste.

Given the choice between being able to treat several years worth of brew water ~ even at my own, somewhat monumental level of output ~ in my pocket. Or constantly ship in gallons upon gallons of water, wrapped in endless plastic and doing god knows what to the environment ....? Guess what ....?

Regards anyone 'Having To' use a crushie? Would you use a condom, Wales? If the situation arose. Works party, what ever? Possibly not. And ye'd most likely be fine afterwards, having not done so.

However, using a crushie is a lot less shit than using a condom. And the potential outcome of Not using one a lot less life f**king. It'll only, at most, f**k That brew. But, for some stupid little minus fraction of a pennies worth of stuff; Why risk ye beer?

With me now? Your water may be fine. So might his. Others aren't so sure. They lug gallons home from Aldi. Me? I've no idea, frankly. My crushie sorts it out.

Look; Would You try to make beer with untreated This?!

That's my water!


Oh, and that feet thing? Same difference. If I put My foot in my wort; Would it destroy the brew? Dunno. People flap their lips, on here, about how ye should plunge ye arm into a bucket of bleach, before so much as trying to retrieve ye false teeth from the FV.

Well, feet are like water, surely? All of ours may be different. My earlier point, about sticking ones foot into the FV, is just bouncing off yet earlier questions and answers raised around this whole thread, and my methodology's.

" Would sticking my foot in the brew kill it? "

" Would Not sticking a crushie in my water kill the brew? "

Ask yourself the same questions. All of you.

By the way; These are My feet .....

[CJR]

Out of interest Ditch, what makes your water look so crap? Also do you treat your water that you use for cups of tea and the like?

[Ditch]

Ergo, not possible for me to treat the water before adding it to the kit.

Haven't followed this thread, have ye? Plastic jerry can.

[Ditch]

Ditch, what makes your water look so crap?

Noel does, mate He's my neighbour. Hereditary cattle farmer. And, because it's the way round here, he also happens to be the bloke that treats the water.

Lost ye already? Okay; We don't have some vast plc flogging us the rain and emptying our bank accounts into their share holders ones for the privilege.

Here, a bunch of farmers got together. Scratched their heads. And decided to dig a hole. From this hole they then connected and ran out miles and miles of one inch, plastic piping. Voilà we had water, on tap.

And Noel knows where that hole is. And, now and then, he goes up to it and chucks a Huge barrel of chlorine crystals into it. (I know this, because I once saw the huge, empty container on his lawn. Talk about an FV! )

Now; At that point there, I drained my first tea mug. Contorted. And made a desperate dash for the ditch. This is quite normal.

What isn't normal. Never again shall be. And changed the very first morning I awoke in this land, is my guts. And that's all down to the water. I'd been tea total for over a decade, when I got here. I drank some tea, from this places tap, that first day.

Next day, my guts had turned to liquid slurry. Been the same ever since. Nothing to do with the stout I now consume in such quantity. Like it long before I tasted beer again.

One time, I did buy a Brita filter jug. That's what I'm showing ye in that shot. Too much faffing and I figured the replacement regimen was a cash cow for them. It never did anything for my guts anyway. Now, I just drink the stuff. And fear trying to fart in public more than I fear death itself.

God knows what it is with this water then. But, chucking that crushie in there is my own little talisman against it. I encourage others to do likewise because it's a harmless habit to get into.

And if, perchance, they happen to live with dodgy water? Better they use a crushie and never know, than lose their first ever brew.

[crafty john]

Well at least your water makes good beer Like living in the 18th century where everyone drank beer instead of water.

[tazzymutt]

...Like living in the 18th century where everyone drank beer instead of water.

You mean some people don't do that now?

Happy brewing,


Ian.

[crafty john]

...Like living in the 18th century where everyone drank beer instead of water.

You mean some people don't do that now?

Happy brewing,


Ian.

I do, but I don't know about everyone else.

[Exiled Bradfordian]

Ergo, not possible for me to treat the water before adding it to the kit.

Haven't followed this thread, have ye? Plastic jerry can.

Ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. I know you use a plastic Jerry Can. I don't have a plastic Jerry Can.

I just meant that I figured adding the crushie to the wort before the yeast would be the same as adding it to the water. Reading this has made me realise that this *might* not be the case - and that, perhaps, I should invest in a plastic Jerry Can.

Hence why I'm interested in what happens to FV5

[Exiled Bradfordian]

Duplicate post - soz

[Ditch]

EB; I'm every bit as curious about 5, believe me.

However, when I asked myself, at the time? My own reasoning seemed to make sense.

Crushies are, to the best of my knowledge, solidified tablets of Sodium Metabisulphate. For you and I, we'd might as well call that 'Bleach'. (Yes, I know; Some P.hd in Physics will be straining at the leash to correct that and give us all a lesson in boring the uninterested) Bottom line is; It inhibits fermentation. Like bleach does. Hold that thought.

Okay. And what causes fermentation? Correct. Yeast. So, if yeast is causing fermentation, the SM / Crushie content must act on the yeast, seemingly obviously.

Digest that for a minute. This is about to get ridiculous!


Now, here's the weird bit; It also kills the very stuff that we Want, in bleach. After we've stopped wanting it. Chlorine.

See, we put bleach / chlorine in the FV to kill germs. But, this same stuff would kill yeast too. So, we have to wash that shit out, before we introduce our yeast. This we do, and call 'Sanitising the FV'.

Then, we run off four gallons of water, loaded with yet More Clorine, and chuck a crushie in it, to neutralise That! How come the crushie containing water doesn't f**k our yeast / fermentation?

It's all about Amounts. There's a damn site less bleach in the tap water. So, it takes a site less crushie content to over power it. So little, in fact, that it can't harm the yeast.

Am I expressing this in a followable manner, EB?

See? All this interaction between chlorines and crushies centres around the Yeast. Kill that and the whole game's off. I don't believe the level of chlorine found in tap waters can hurt malts in any way. I added chlorinated tap water to my malts. Yes?

On realising this, I threw the crushie in there, to neutralise that water. Some time later, as the neutralised liquid, containing just an extremely diluted, trace of SM / crushie, no where near enough to f**k with a good yeast, warmed up, I added the yeast.

That's why I reckon FV 5 should be fine. In fact, now I come to think about it? ( ) Yeah! They've both been going like f**king trains, in there! So, there's obviously f**k all wrong with the Yeast, look.

As above: I can't see That, tiny, level of SM doing jack with malt anyway .....

I reckon we've cracked it, EB. I reckon Five will be fine

[Exiled Bradfordian]

I'll go for that, Ditch.

Just one question - one crushie or one half of one crushie per four gallons?

I thought you'd said a half previously. Have you uprated your preferred doseage to one, or have I just misremembered?

Cheers!
Richard

[berts]

Have you thought about trying your rainwater Ditch, I don't know how good it is where you are .but its good soft water, just have some good clean sheets of tin on a out house roof and a water butt. If nothing else you can make a cup of tea.