Baby steps in AG??

[DEV]

+100 to Eric totally agree

[Valley Commando]

I knew the 3V brewers would bite, thats why I put a winky. Before you know it my chosen brew method is being called crude and Eric stated that 3v produces better beer in his hands.

Ok, well here is a statement to chew on. My BIAB system is so simple I dont need to use any hands to mash. I can use my teeth to pull the pulley rope and my feet to set the thermostat on the Buffalo, my nose to push the on switch, and my elbows to ladle in the grain!

What does that tell you? 1. I am an argumentative idiot 2. You thought about it and realised it is just credible (but messy and funny) 3. Anyone can make any crazy-ass personal experience statement they like on the internet. I declare that BIAB is they greatest system in the world my hands. I however have some supporting evidence: BIAB actually won the latest head-to-head system war: http://www.ahb.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=59420
BIAB brews win prizes at competitions! Obviously not my shoddy efforts (as I am a lover not a fighter/homebrew demon), but it does show BIAB does not need to be in some "paralympic" like special category, it is competitive with even the most complex systems out there.

I am a little unclear: what is to dislike about BIAB? Like Bribie I think it is a method well suited to homebrew scale wort production: cheap, simple, no fuss, yet it gets looked down on all the time. Face it guys - the bag won! head-to head!

Behaving like a grown-up for just a moment, I think we would all agree that radical as it seems, brewing really is not very much about which system we produce the wort with. Its about what our chosen yeasties do with our recipe.

You asked which bits I find inconvenient about 3v:

1. The mash tun wont fit in the washing machine.
2. Storing the mash tun is inconvenient : I can better use the space for a second FV!

What I like about BIAB:

1. Less to clean.
2. Simpler = less chance of procedural error= better brewing for an idiot like me.
3. Big grainbag= big nutsack. Dont let anyone tell you different!
4. Great support from guys like Bribie, Biabrewer forum.
5. I own net-curtain shares: Really, whats wrong with going to Dunelm Mill for your mashing gear? Thats where all the funky patterned curtain material is. Can you say tiger-stripe voile brewbag?
6. As a BIABer I can put brewbag over my head and amuse fellow brewers by pretending to be a ghost/ WW1 condemned deserter/sack of potato's. Stupid but fun!
7. Can put brewbag over fellow brewers and pull drawstring while waiting to hit mash-in temp, then steal their drink/hops. Again stupid but fun!
8. Easier to mend bag than mash tun (possibly related to above points 6+7. )
9. Punk attitude: Why would I want to use traditional multi-vessel brewing like all the other megabreweries!
10. Stuck mash not a problem.
11. Less equipment = less equipment to dispose of at end of life= less landfill- more environmentally friendly
12. Minimal set up or tinkering required: just plug in the urn, add bag and go= quicker brewday
13. Wife gets to make bag, feels useful and more involved in my brewing, buy-in from wife allows me to keep brewing.
14. Dont have to spend time wondering where the wort is leaking from as electric urn system is so goddamn simple, doesnt rely on my shonky DIY skillz.

Disadvantages of BIAB

1. Cant have a grain bill bigger than I can safely lift. Seriously, is that really a drawback? I have mates and a pulley in case I feel seriously weak with scurvy on the day when I decide to brew that 12% Imperial Russian (yuk!). Honestly who drinks that stuff? It aint going to happen! All I want to make is a nice sensible beer to share with mates of an evening, not something that keeps for a decade and doesn't freeze when its shipped to Murmansk...

2. Shocking decrease in efficiency from a number less than 100% with 3V to : drumroll: less than 100% with BIAB. Does that matter? Does anyone seriously believe that squeezing the maximum brewhouse efficiency is important when you are hobby brewing? I reckon mine is around 70% and knowing that with Brewmate I can adjust recipes accordingly, and hit my planned gravities. I am sure I could get a better efficiency with a more complex system, but my time is precious. Like everyone else my sack of malt has to be used up before it goes stale. Base malt is a whole load cheaper than copper, and as its brewed for fun, a few pennies more on malt is neither here nor there!

3. Getting told BIAB is crude by other brewers: Crude but tasty I say!

4. Thats it for the disadvantages.

As for the matter of the departed, that's probably not relevant in this thread. What matters most is our 2 newcomers, interested in taking the plunge to allgrain. Good luck tractorboy and froggi! I look forward to hearing about your brews!

[Beer O'Clock]

[Eric]

I knew the 3V brewers would bite, thats why I put a winky. Before you know it my chosen brew method is being called crude and Eric stated that 3v produces better beer in his hands.

Ok, well here is a statement to chew on. My BIAB system is so simple I dont need to use any hands to mash. I can use my teeth to pull the pulley rope and my feet to set the thermostat on the Buffalo, my nose to push the on switch, and my elbows to ladle in the grain!

What does that tell you?

An awful lot, I might have used "comical" had I known that. Can you look up "crude" in a dictionary? It seems to me that scene couldn't be visualised and labelled as "refined" without falling over in fits of laughter. (Gosh, I can't type and simultaneously wipe the tears fast enough from my eyes.)

Seriously, please for once believe me, if you, or anyone for that matter, get to my age, you wouldn't want to do that, you'd want not just a different way, you'd want a better way. I've a folding chair and a book and a radio and grandchildren that visit and play safely beside me while I brew. They ask questions in the hope of learning, and that leads to the main point in all I've written on this hijacked topic.

If you wish to restrict your brewing to a single facet, (in what you've written, not only have you excluded much of what you've some knowledge of, but also a vast arena that you can't know about) that's fine with us all, carry on and may you enjoy the rewards and every second that you spend. However, please don't advocate that there is a process in brewing, going beyond which isn't worth the effort, unless and until you have lots of documented evidence and nothing with credence of the opposite view. It flies in the face of the objective of this forum and in any case, do we really want to spread ignorance?

[oneilldave]

Well said, Valley commando, that made me smile!

Now, I am an all grain brewer and I made the switch from extract earlier this year. A mate of mine sold me a mash tun, another mate lent me his boiler and immersion cooler ... so off I went. I had a few notes from my mate (Horatio, a fellow JBK member) and I gave it a go. The results from extract brewing to a full mash were phenominal. I had already said I, when I discovered extract brewing, that I would never go back to kits, and I say the same thing again about all grain brewing.

I have never tried BIAB and can't see what all the fuss is about when comparing methodologies. I mean, all that matters is the beer in the bottle at the end of it. If I choose to mash each individual grain, on its own in a thimblefull of water, and then pour them all in to a big boiler at the end, and get a decent beer eventually, then that's my perogative. I am not in this to win prizes but to get good beer at an affordable price. And if the recent statement about low prices being outlawed by the government are to be believed I think we should only encourage anyone considering brewing. Can you imagine what the outcome would be if beer and lager sales fell so drastically that the Taxman's revenue plunged?

So, go for BIAB and enjoy the results, or go for the mash tun come boiler brew and also enjoy the results. I live in south east Essex so don't think I will be any use either when it comes to helping out on a brew day, but I'm happy to leave an email address and provide guidance during a brewday if that helps. Just send me a message and I'll get back.

This is such a good hobby and I learn new things every brewday. long may that continue.

Happy New Year to you all,

Dave.

[EoinMag]

do we really want to spread ignorance?

Would you consider spreading ignorance the same thing as stopping innovation?

[EoinMag]

Well said, Valley commando, that made me smile!

Now, I am an all grain brewer and I made the switch from extract earlier this year. A mate of mine sold me a mash tun, another mate lent me his boiler and immersion cooler ... so off I went. I had a few notes from my mate (Horatio, a fellow JBK member) and I gave it a go. The results from extract brewing to a full mash were phenominal. I had already said I, when I discovered extract brewing, that I would never go back to kits, and I say the same thing again about all grain brewing.

I have never tried BIAB and can't see what all the fuss is about when comparing methodologies. I mean, all that matters is the beer in the bottle at the end of it. If I choose to mash each individual grain, on its own in a thimblefull of water, and then pour them all in to a big boiler at the end, and get a decent beer eventually, then that's my perogative. I am not in this to win prizes but to get good beer at an affordable price. And if the recent statement about low prices being outlawed by the government are to be believed I think we should only encourage anyone considering brewing. Can you imagine what the outcome would be if beer and lager sales fell so drastically that the Taxman's revenue plunged?

So, go for BIAB and enjoy the results, or go for the mash tun come boiler brew and also enjoy the results. I live in south east Essex so don't think I will be any use either when it comes to helping out on a brew day, but I'm happy to leave an email address and provide guidance during a brewday if that helps. Just send me a message and I'll get back.

This is such a good hobby and I learn new things every brewday. long may that continue.

Happy New Year to you all,

Dave.

+1 Can't we all just get along and enjoy our beer? In a world where people were not so defensive there would be no need for seperate forums on BIAB and brewers would advise each other on the merits of each system and we'd all just get along .....NOT.

[Manx Guy]

FWIW

I went into 3 V system brewing mainly becasue the brewing books I had been given suggested it was the 'only ' way... I now know better of course but I've several brews under my belt and I have all the AG kit I need to make tasty beer.

I don't have a mashing bag suitable for BIAB brewing and that is the main reason I havn't tried it...

Seems to work well for those that use it and it seems it wins comps - so others think the beer is good too!


I certainly think that there is room for the two brewing methods just as there is room for over 80 'styles' of beer!

Not every one of those styles is popular or the best but each has its avid followers...

For example I recently learned alot about 'Saisons' as a style and now appreciate them for what they are...
That said I once tipped a 5 gallon batch that had been fermented too warm - guess what it tasted just like a commercial saison!



Live & learn!

[Eric]

do we really want to spread ignorance?

Would you consider spreading ignorance the same thing as stopping innovation?

Certainly not, however anyone believing at that BIAB was in 2011, an innovation, is ignorant.

[Eric]

do we really want to spread ignorance?

Would you consider spreading ignorance the same thing as stopping innovation?

Certainly not, however anyone believing at that BIAB was in 2011, an innovation, is ignorant.

Just to clarify the above, the acronym BIAB is recent, the process isn't.

[froggi]

Excuse me!!!
I asked a question and hoped for some positive responses in order to assist me in my continued progression toward AG brewing from my current status.

If you would like to continue your "discussion", please start a seperate thread and not "hijack" someone elses. This not meant to shove peoples noses out of joint, just that I wanted some info and ended up with certain members engaged in a discussion of the merits of one method over another!!!!

[Manx Guy]

Excuse me!!!
I asked a question and hoped for some positive responses in order to assist me in my continued progression toward AG brewing from my current status.

If you would like to continue your "discussion", please start a seperate thread and not "hijack" someone elses. This not meant to shove peoples noses out of joint, just that I wanted some info and ended up with certain members engaged in a discussion of the merits of one method over another!!!!

Fair point there was a bit of Thread hijack-ery going on there...

I know of a few AG brewers on this forum who are based in the Sheffield area & once they are online after the Xmas break I'm sure one of them will be able to help you out with your query!

Good luck!

Guy

[froggi]

Guy, many thanks to you for recognising the "hijackery".... Also I approve the signature re 4 wheels over 2 wheels and I must say I have to agree whole-heartedly!!!
Cheers
Chris

[Eric]

Froggi, it's a pity that so far no one close to Sheffield has been able to offer a demonstration. I could do one here, needing to brew for myself, but the travelling distance isn't inconsiderable.
My opinion is that if you stick at the hobby, your brewery will develop and change with time as you find new objectives, your strengths and weaknesses as well as with changing technology, costs and your lifestyle. If you can, or are prepared to learn how to build your own equipment, costs can be reduced or complexities increased for any given expenditure. as an example, my current mash tun came about when I found a coolbox in a shop for £7 which in a few days with bits of salvaged copper pipe and a plastic drum tap produced my clearest wort ever, a problem that had knagged me for years.
Have you a budget or any skills or passions?

The best tip I could ever have been given and not forgot was, make sure any tap in a vessel you are about to fill is turned off. Another would be if you need to have and use a delicate instrument, buy two. There are lots more but to get more swiftly to your needs, have you an answer to the above question?

[froggi]

Eric
Thanks for the tip.... Appreciated greatly and I can offer you one back too.... When pouring a pint, always remember which way the tap turns on/off as you tend to waste beer when forgetting which way it turns off when your glass is full....!!!
Thanks for the offer of a demo and although your neck of the woods isn't too far away, it's still a bit of a trek. I'm hoping some kind homebrewer closer to home gives a little consideration to my plight and offers an invitation so I can point and ask what's what....!!!
Budget - I've decide to do this on as little a budget as possible initially; Skills - Jack of all trades but am a qualified welder, Passions - couldn't possibly comment - our lass'd kill me, lol
Thanks again for the input