2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Members' meetings, Beer Festivals and the like - bung it on here. Old topics will be pruned after 3 months.

What type of event would you like the 2012 National to be?

a) just a competition
4
11%
b) a competition with a social afterwards
11
30%
c) a competition that takes place at the same time as some seminars and with a social event afterwards
22
59%
 
Total votes: 37

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Jim
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Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by Jim » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:51 pm

Do you have a venue in mind for this year yet?
NURSE!! He's out of bed again!

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alikocho

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alikocho » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:01 pm

Jim wrote:Do you have a venue in mind for this year yet?
I have it narrowed down to a few.

lancsSteve

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by lancsSteve » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:13 pm

Given how long judging could take I personally found the 2008 national worked well with some seminars etc in the day before the prizes and sampling started - brewlabs did one great seminar their electorn microscope service was good. Some of the stalls there on the day also made it feel like a proper event which was good to attend as a competitor.

I'd agree with Ali - if you want to learn about judging process etc. info is on the web or volunteer as a steward which is a really great way of learning, practicing and helping out at the event. (Or if you're really keen ask to join in on one of the online sessions for the BJCP course Ali is running from Bristol - tons to learn on those and they're good fun and a great excuse to buy and try varied beers).

I've contacted BrewLabs (on behalf and request of Ali/CBA etc.) about a faults session...

If not just smelling tubes then perhaps, given increasing interests in and entries for wild yeast beers, something on that might be an idea - electron microscope of the beasties that cause either 'infection' or 'great beer' depending on what you were planning and like e.g. looking at 'infected samples' from the cometition room as well as submitted 'wild yeast beers' in addition to those in the competition and commercial examples like geuzes perhaps?

Historical beers could be good too - though guessing Ali you'll have your hands far too full on the day to present on your Zymurgy article on historic Soviet brewing though... Ah well - maybe someone else?

Steve

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borischarlton
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Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by borischarlton » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 pm

A competition with a social afterwards where we can sample the entries would be brilliant, as Steve said it worked so well at Skipton.

Rob

alikocho

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alikocho » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:54 pm

While people say they'd like seminars, it's fast becoming apparent that this doesn't necessarily mesh well with judging the competition. The competition will take the whole day (ask those who saw it last year), and will need to involve a large number of people. At Skipton, there were relatively few judges, but that isn't how this will run. I anticipate that I will be using around 30 judges and 20 stewards, none of whom will be free for seminars...

A lounge during and social afterwards is definitely doable, but the seminars are much harder to pull off.

Of course, we could always make a weekend of it, but that's a much bigger undertaking in effort and money.

alikocho

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alikocho » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:56 pm

While people say they'd like seminars, it's fast becoming apparent that this doesn't necessarily mesh well with judging the competition. The competition will take the whole day (ask those who saw it last year), and will need to involve a large number of people. At Skipton, there were relatively few judges, but that isn't how this will run. I anticipate that I will be using around 30 judges and 20 stewards, none of whom will be free for seminars...

A lounge during and social afterwards is definitely doable, but the seminars are much harder to pull off. This isn't to say they aren't doable, but they need both presenters and attendees.

Of course, we could always make a weekend of it, but that's a much bigger undertaking in effort and money.

coatesg

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by coatesg » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:19 am

borischarlton wrote:A competition with a social afterwards where we can sample the entries would be brilliant, as Steve said it worked so well at Skipton.
But then that requires a 6 bottle entry again which is IMHO too much to ask brewers to submit, and expensive for shipping. There was suggestion of doing something like the NHC club night - that's a more sensible way of running it I think - you have less beers to try, yet supply more of each (a keg or so). I'd volunteer a keg of something to supply if that's the way it'll roll.

alikocho

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alikocho » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:54 pm

coatesg wrote:
borischarlton wrote:A competition with a social afterwards where we can sample the entries would be brilliant, as Steve said it worked so well at Skipton.
But then that requires a 6 bottle entry again which is IMHO too much to ask brewers to submit, and expensive for shipping. There was suggestion of doing something like the NHC club night - that's a more sensible way of running it I think - you have less beers to try, yet supply more of each (a keg or so). I'd volunteer a keg of something to supply if that's the way it'll roll.
IT WILL NOT BE A SIX BOTTLE COMPETITION. IT IS A TWO BOTTLE COMPETITION. THIS IS NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.

Might I remind people that this is a Competition first and foremost. All other concerns are secondary and must be made to fit sensibly. This is not that things beyond the competition can't happen, but they do need to be carefully considered.

Six bottles is too much for people to give up, ship, keep around, for the competition to store, and potentially to dispose of. I anticipate entries in the region of 400-500 this year. Do the maths.

There will be a social, but more like the NHC club night. People should bring beer with them for it, either in bottles or kegs. This avoids the shipping and storage issues, and the grumbles from people who don't come that they've sent beer in for others to drink. It's simple - you want to share it, you bring it. You don't bring it, the social will be very dry. You should bring at least as much as you expect to drink.
Last edited by alikocho on Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

coatesg

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by coatesg » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:08 pm

IT WILL NOT BE A SIX BOTTLE COMPETITION. IT IS A TWO BOTTLE COMPETITION. THIS IS NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
Good!

naffolddog

2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by naffolddog » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:01 pm

coatesg wrote:
IT WILL NOT BE A SIX BOTTLE COMPETITION. IT IS A TWO BOTTLE COMPETITION. THIS IS NOT OPEN FOR DISCUSSION.
Good!
I second that! Good! :)

Apart from the postage costs and logistical nightmare at the receiving end, it's a lot of beer to potentially pour down the drain at the end of the day as happened at Skipton! :shock:

lancsSteve

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by lancsSteve » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:12 pm

alikocho wrote:There will be a social, but more like the NHC club night. People should bring beer with them for it, either in bottles or kegs. This avoids the shipping and storage issues, and the grumbles from people who don't come that they've sent beer in for others to drink. It's simple - you want to share it, you bring it. You don't bring it, the social will be very dry. You should bring at least as much as you expect to drink.
Sounds like a very good plan that should be able to keep everyone happy.

lancsSteve

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by lancsSteve » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:18 pm

alikocho wrote:A lounge during and social afterwards is definitely doable, but the seminars are much harder to pull off.
Is that due to space? Or due to logistics? Judging may take much of the day but as it moves to 'best in show' there will be fewer judges involved.

My thought is seeking to ensure that there is something 'on' in the afternoon as an event if you're not being a judge or steward. I know that these events were really valued at Skipton as Rob says, however I guess (if space etc. permit) then a few stalls and the NHC-style bar would take care of that with less logistical overheads or cost than a seminar with less organisation...

2 bottles is great - I'm sure people who are coming will bring more bottles of beers they rate will bring some extras but great that's not 'obliged' and those comin in person will have the option.

Would cornie entries be allowed though? Or will you require filling two bottles from a cornie?

All of this raising one obvious question: How many breweries does it take to organise a piss up at a community centre? :wink:

alikocho

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alikocho » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:54 pm

lancsSteve wrote:
alikocho wrote:A lounge during and social afterwards is definitely doable, but the seminars are much harder to pull off.
Is that due to space? Or due to logistics? Judging may take much of the day but as it moves to 'best in show' there will be fewer judges involved.
Space has implications of cost, organization and clean-up. The logistics of seminars is having people to organize and run them who aren't otherwise involved in judging, people who can setup and tidy up. Oh, and there need to be people actually prepared to run them, and someone to book the speakers. It's not impossible, but it's much more work to organize and do well. And, it would certainly mean that there would be a charge for attending the event, which might limit its appeal.
lancsSteve wrote: Would cornie entries be allowed though?


No. The rules state two bottles as an entry. Having people pulling stuff off kegs is a logistical issue as they have to know it's kegged not bottled and then be able to competently deal with keg service. It also means that the beer isn't poured at the judging table, and the issue of how a steward handles it introduces too many variables that a judge may not be aware of. Kegs at such events also don't necessarily show the beer off in the best light (as some know, and at the London Comp if I hadn't suggested that the beer get poured again after the picnic tap had forced all of the condition out that beer would have scored much lower). Added to that, as there may also need to be extra judging slots prior to the day to deal with the volume of entries, cornies make life harder, and they don't fit in bottle crates.

People can bring beer in kegs for the social element (I'd say they'd be vital for a hospitality suite bar), but the competition is strictly bottles (as it clearly says in the rules).

It does not matter whether those two bottles were filled from a keg, bottle conditioned, or wrung from a towel.
lancsSteve wrote:
All of this raising one obvious question: How many breweries does it take to organise a piss up at a community centre? :wink:
I'll get back to you on that one. Not least as I'm organizing a competition, with an attendant piss up.

lancsSteve

Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by lancsSteve » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:16 am

Thanks for clarifying Ali - hopefully the more questions and ideas addressed clearly now the fewer there will be at the time and the better for all the event/competition can be.

Maybe worth a poll on acceptable entry charge (with Cba member reduction)? If there is a social element in pm to eve I'm sure people will pay entry considering just how much better, more exciting and varied beers were at skipton tasting than any regional camra event I've ever attended. Homebrewer may be tight but not that tight!

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alix101
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Re: 2012 National - what type of event do you want?

Post by alix101 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:26 pm

I was reading a, link the other day about how many of the JBK members have there own breweries it seems quite a few ...surely having beer provided would be the, only sensible route to go down with a pay bar. Bring a bottle or a keg seems insane not to mention, difficult to serve.....
Just as another suggestion :oops: how about asking some retailers to have stalls...it might be a way of getting some revenue in to help with costs.
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