Brewday discrepancies

[bigdave]

It ended up 1.080 going into the FV.

[bigdave]

So when beer engine says mash efficiency it is actually the efficiency for 17L ie what goes into the FV. But still can't understand what is 1080 gravity...

From Beer engines user notes:

If mash efficiency is selected, then measure the volume and original gravity of the sweet wort collected from the mash tun (including spargings).

So that's the total collection pre boil and not just the 17l in the FV.

[DeGarre]

It ended up 1.080 going into the FV.

So what is 1.091?

[bigdave]

1.091 is the gravity Beer Engine calculated I would expect going into the FV.

From fiddling with Beer Smith and setting up profiles for my mash tun and boiler, the exact same recipe gives an OG of 1.083, estimated final gravity of 1.017, (estimated abv = 8.8%) estimated mash efficiency of 68% and brewhouse efficiency of 61%

[DeGarre]

There's are certain set of relevant numbers. Litres and gravity before the boil (mash efficiency), litres and gravity into FV (efficienty into the FV), bottled/kegged litres and gravity (efficiency into the tummy).

Just pick the corresponding values and use those to calculate. Any other litres you might see while brewing is just noise and that 1.091 is not relevant.

so if BE calculates 1091 it is rubbish because you didn't measure it yourself.

[DeGarre]

BE shouldn't solve for the gravity ie 1.091 but efficiency. You know your grains, kilos, litres, gravities.

If BE calculates the gravity then if you have everything else correctly inputted 1.091 should match the actual 1.080. So perhaps litres should be fudged to make them match?

This is exactly why I do these recipes on spreadsheet, so complicated...

[PhilB]

Hi Dave

So when beer engine says mash efficiency it is actually the efficiency for 17L ie what goes into the FV. But still can't understand what is 1080 gravity...

From Beer engines user notes:

If mash efficiency is selected, then measure the volume and original gravity of the sweet wort collected from the mash tun (including spargings).

So that's the total collection pre boil and not just the 17l in the FV.

... errmmm, Yes and No

The figure that you enter as your predicted efficiency into Beer Engine ... it's labelled "Mash Efficiency" in the Set Defaults dialogue, just "Efficiency" in the recipe statistics panel at the top right of the main Beer Engine window and "Mash Efficiency" in the statistics info at the bottom of any recipe you output using the "Printing" > "Recipe to Browser" function (and, rather unhelpfully, it's just specified as "Mash Efficiency This is the efficiency applied to everything in the mash tun. The 'factory default' is 75%." in the help notes) ... actually needs to be the expected Brewhouse Efficiency figure ... that's what you calculate using the "Overall Efficiency" option in the "Calculators" > "Efficiency" tool ... it's what calculates as 61.6% when you use the figures you provide above, and you'll see that if you put that 61.6% figure into the "Mash Efficiency" box of the "Set Defaults" dialogue in Beer Engine then it predicts an OG of 1.080 ... like you achieved

From fiddling with Beer Smith and setting up profiles for my mash tun and boiler, the exact same recipe gives an OG of 1.083, estimated final gravity of 1.017, (estimated abv = 8.8%) estimated mash efficiency of 68% and brewhouse efficiency of 61%

... and if you fiddle with the Beer Engine defaults similarly you can get it to reflect what actually happened ...

Code: Select all

Gloaming IPA

Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio 
Pale Malt 5 EBC 14 lbs. 15.8 oz 6800 grams 92% 
Pale Chocolate Malt 500 EBC 0 lbs. 8.9 oz 255 grams 3.4% 
Torrefied Wheat 4 EBC 0 lbs. 6.0 oz 170 grams 2.3% 
Black Malt 1300 EBC 0 lbs. 6.0 oz 170 grams 2.3% 

Final Volume: 17 Litres 
Original Gravity: 1.080  
Final Gravity: 1.021  
Alcohol Content: 7.8% ABV 
Total Liquor: 31 Litres 
Mash Liquor: 20 Litres 
Mash Efficiency: 61.6 % 
Bitterness: 0 EBU 
Colour: 139 EBC 

... to get it like that I had to set the defaults to ... Target Volume=17 lts, Mash Efficiency=61.6% (as calculated as "Overall Efficiecny"), Liquor to Grist Ratio=2.7% (to get the 20 lts you actually mashed with), Evaporation=13.5% (to get the total volume to 31 lts that you rounded up to and actually added) and Wort Loss=4.3 lts ... Beer Engine already assumes a 1 lt/kg loss to grain.

If you're happy with Beer Smith then feel free to carry on using it but, as you can see, any/all of these bits of software can be "fiddled" with after the event to represent what actually happened ... the "trick" is to gather enough of this sort of data, from enough brews, to "calibrate" whichever software you choose, for your brewing equipment and methods (and to the sorts of beers you tend to brew) ... so that you can feel confident that your beer will turn out like it predicted

Good luck with that ... I know it's something I'm still struggling with
Cheers, PhilB

[bigdave]

Cheers Phil.

So essentially my issue with BE was that the efficiency figure in the defaults is brewhouse and not mash efficiency?.. ffs!

Gunna keep fiddling with brewsmith for now as it's less hassle than running BE on a mac.