Hard water, majority of England?

[PaulStat]

When I was measuring the gravity of my beer to see if it was ready I would drink the beer I had run off into the trial jar. Now at the time I thought hmmm this seems to be very bitter but put it down to it being very young and I'm still hoping it'll improve with time in the keg/bottles. Now I've recently found out these tastes can be down to hard water, so off I go to find out if Bristol is a hard water area and I come across this diagram



This would suggest that the vast majority of England is hard water, how many of you chaps treat your water supply before brewing?

[SiHoltye]

Mate, this could be the suspect I'm investigating with my less than forthcoming local water company.
In the meantime I've got my first brew using bottled water (and having chosen mineral additions to suit based on it's mineral makeup using GW's calculator) in the FV and I'm thinking it tastes a lot smoother than I'm used to. Before I've thought this taste may be down to exclusively used S-04 (first 30 brews or so), it's an undesirable tongue coating bitter edge...not by any means pronounced but def there. I'm ruling out S-04 now 'cos I made an APA with WLP001 and I'm sorry to say I can detect a similar flavour...that I'm also (another possible culprit I wondered) starting to think isn't hops as I also changed variety from Challenger (my usual) to Cascade and it's still detectable.
It's a work in progress.

[sparky Paul]

Water hardness certainly plays a big part in the taste, but as I understand it, a moderately high level of hardness is desirable for many ale styles. The water in Burton-on-Trent is pretty hard, and I'm guessing it's not too dissimilar to where I am now, and both places are in the dark blue area of the map.

Hardness can vary quite a bit locally. Where I used to live 20 miles away, the water was 100% borehole water and was very hard indeed, and my previous attempts at making beer there were pretty dire (pre JBK days). Then again, there had previously been local breweries there in the past, so someone could make something out of it. Where I am now, the water seems just right.

There are lots of great breweries in soft water areas too, I used to live near Sheffield, and some of the breweries made great beer. I wonder if they added anything to increase the hardness?

Also, isn't bottled water quite hard?

[SiHoltye]

Could be, but having a stated water analysis on the bottle lets me make additions as appropriate. I'm not claiming to have any kind of water...I wish I could, then at least I'd know which direction to move in!

[jubby]

PS, you need to be treating your water to lower the alkalinity. DaaB (amongst others) always said that getting the mash ph right was first and foremost in the brewing process. I took his advice and my brews were transformed.

If you suspect that your alkalinity levels are as per the map you posted, you need to be adding around 1 to 1.5ml CRS per litre of water to lower the alkalinity from 200 to around 30 mg/l Ca C03 for brewing most ales (or boiling your water). Figures will change depending on the type of ale to be brewed. You can ask your water provider for a water quality report, see Grahams water calculator in the links above.

Having said all that, your beer will taste over bitter when young. It will mellow given time.

[PaulStat]

PS, you need to be treating your water to lower the alkalinity. DaaB (amongst others) always said that getting the mash ph right was first and foremost in the brewing process. I took his advice and my brews were transformed.

If you suspect that your alkalinity levels are as per the map you posted, you need to be adding around 1 to 1.5ml CRS per litre of water to lower the alkalinity from 200 to around 30 mg/l Ca C03 for brewing most ales (or boiling your water). Figures will change depending on the type of ale to be brewed. You can ask your water provider for a water quality report, see Grahams water calculator in the links above.

Having said all that, your beer will taste over bitter when young. It will mellow given time.

Thanks, what does CRS stand for?

[sparky Paul]

what does CRS stand for?

Carbonate Reducing Solution, I believe.

I must add that all this is a bit of a mystery to me. Currently, my brewing (albeit only kits at the moment) seems to be working okay since I moved here, the water must be okay, but it's completely by accident. When it comes to understanding what exactly makes good brewing water, many of the books tell you what to add, but surely you need to know what base you are working from.

I can understand why some use water which has been stripped by a reverse osmosis filter, then add back the minerals as necessary.

[confused]

all this is a bit of a mystery to me

your are not alone SparkyP, I have just started loooking at water quality having obtained a very detalied report from Severn Trent's website. In the past I have just shoved half acrushed campden tablet in and hoped for the best. In truth I've never detected any problems but with my new brewery nearing completion I want to go to the next level and liquor content is something I want to concentrate more on.

Burton water is very hard, we live in a hard water area and still it is harder than ours, according to GW's calulator, if I'm getting it right of course. I think initially I will concentrate on PH and hardness then other mineral content can be got to grips with later.

[booldawg]

Finding out the total alkalinity from your water board isn't always easy. You only get the customer services number which is fine for sorting out your bill but expect the customer services rep to umm and ahh. Last time I phoned the rep said they'd have to come out and test my tap water. Not really what I wanted. She took my number and said someone would phone but they never did.

I even managed to find a phone number for my water providers lab (which is in Frimley) the phone rang and rang but no-one picked up.

All I know is our water is extremely hard, drawn up from boreholes through chalk. Water treatment is a bit of a shot in the dark without knowing at least the total alkalinity.

[ade1865]

I'm in the Bristol Water area. I rang them up and they took my details and got one of their white coat chaps to ring me back with my own water report for total alkilinity. Try them, they're quite amenable. If you don't get a reply, PM me and I'll send you the guys name.

Also check out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14753

[PaulStat]

I'm in the Bristol Water area. I rang them up and they took my details and got one of their white coat chaps to ring me back with my own water report for total alkilinity. Try them, they're quite amenable. If you don't get a reply, PM me and I'll send you the guys name.

Also check out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14753

Actually my future father in law works for wessex water, admittedly he doesn't cover Bristol so much but definitely the surrounding areas. I'll ask him next time I see him.

[confused]

we must be lucky in the Severn Trent area, full water eveluations for all supplies are online - you can access them with your postcode. It will tell you where your water comes from, and what is in it.

It's just a shame that most of what goes into the pipes leaks out before it gets to me!

[jamesb]

we must be lucky in the Severn Trent area, full water eveluations for all supplies are online - you can access them with your postcode. It will tell you where your water comes from, and what is in it.

Dee Valley water also do the same

http://www.deevalleygroup.com/OtherServ ... rdness.htm

and

http://www.deevalleygroup.com/Publicati ... t_2006.pdf

[PaulStat]

Hmmm just found this on the Bristol water website

Water Hardness

All the water supplied by Bristol Water is hard. It’s how it reaches our sources from the environment. The hardness is completely natural; it’s simply as a result of the geography and geology of the area.

The fur, or limescale, on devices such as kettles is just evidence of the hard water. It’s caused by the presence of calcium bicarbonate in the water. When you boil the kettle, the calcium bicarbonate loses its carbon dioxide and reverts to a solid state – limescale.

The hardness of our water can be summed-up at two broad levels:

Code: Select all

                                        Total Hardness(mg/l as Calcium Carbonate)      Hardness Clark (UK)     French German 
Majority of BW Customers 210-300                                                           15-21                          21-29    13-18
Frome Area 	                340                                                                  24                              34          20

The information above should help you in setting-up machines like dishwashers that have in-built water softening devices. The figures are based on an average as hardness does vary slightly from month to month.[/i]

So my CaCO3 is somewhere in the region of 210-300, I suppose I could do with it being a bit more precise than that so next time I brew I can calculate the amount of CRS I need. Correct?

[jubby]

PS asked,

Thanks, what does CRS stand for?

As sparky paul quite rightly said, CRS is carbonate reducing solution. This is a weak blend of sulphuric and hydrochloric acids supplied by Brupacks. Most homebrew shops sell it. This will remove carbonates, as the name suggests, but will also lower the ph. This is important when brewing from grain so that the starches are converted into fermentable sugars. Not so important when brewing kits, as the mashing process has been done for you, so you will get away without treating water.
You may also see reference to DLS, which is also a Brupacks product (dry liquor salts) This is a blend of minerals that also lowers ph. I don't need DLS myself, it causes harsh tastes as my water already has the required minerals etc. The Brupacks website will give you all the info, but check your water quality report first.