Barrels or bottles; which is best?

[RichardG]

When I decided to start brewing I went down the bottling route. The reason was one of cost. I was able to get 120 or so bottles from the local pub, so why not? However, I did fancy barreling, but I can't see what the advantage is of cornys over King keg bottom taps. Why pay for gas to force the beer up a tube to a top tap? What are the pros and cons of the systems, namely bottles, top taps, and bottom taps without extra gas? It seems to me that a bottom tap would give more of a 'pub' feel; but at forty odd quid a go?!

[likesbeer]

Not sure there is a better barrells are less of a faff for cleaning etc and easier for storing but bottles are easier for taking to mates for tasting sessions.
Whether it is a bottom tap or top tap they will need the same amount of gas to get them out, the CO2 is to keep the air out and stop it oxidising usually from priming there is almost enough to get the beer out of the barrell.

Cornies get lots of praise on here so I think they must be good, I think they allow more carbonation so a more representative larger can be done. PLus they ar nice and shiney

I think each to his own each is a little different and perhaps you need to try to find out which you think is best.

You could always try freecycle for a second had barrel for free 2 off mine were donated by a brewer with to many

[RichardG]

Freecycle?

Why would a bottom tap need gas? Wouldn't gravity let the beer out?

[jdt199]

You forget some of your earlier science lessons. The pressure barrel is sealed so as the liquid inside it is reduced a vacum is formed. Atmospheric pressure will then prevent any more beer from escaping no matter where the tap is. The only way to let it out will be by letting air in to fill the vacum (Wrecking your beer) or injecting more C02. This will always be the case no matter where the tap is. Gravity cannot overcome atmospheric pressure. You may get about half a barrel before you can get no more, depending on how quicky the remaing priming sugers & yeast can provide more gas and recarbonating.

Anyway science lesson over, I'm have just started drinking my first beer from a budget keg and its working well with just the right carbonation for a bitter. I have however bought a cornie on ebay a couple of weeks ago but only just found a supply of gas (30 mile drive but for £13 a cylinder I can't complain) so all I need now is a regulator and fitting and Ill be using shineys soon . It is annoying that corneys are only 4 gallon though as I am still doing kits and they are always 5 gallon kits, So I guess that cass for barrels & bottles.

[RichardG]

Ah ha! So, I presumably only need to get enough gas in to equalise the pressure, then let the beer flow. I ask because whilst I've been perfectly happy with bottled beer, I wanted to try and get something nearer a 'pub' product. Bottled beer had often struck me as 'fizzier' than I like in bitter (as a southerner my preference is basically flat!).

[jdt199]

I totally agree. Ale from bottels is always (in my opinion) to gassy like a lager and I much prefer it on draft. The priming sugers I added to my first budget keg gave it a nice head with just the right fizz on the tongue, but without filling me with gas like lager always does. I just top up my keg with 8gram CO2 bulbs after every session (5 pints or so) in hindsight it may have been better to buy a Hambelbard cylinder and S30 valve lids for my keg, then I could just give a squirt of that now and again instead of waiting for a full bubls worth of gas. I recomend you do that if your getting a budget or King keg. If I had the cash spare I would probably get a king keg as they seem better built.

Also you need some pressure to maintain a certain level of carbonation as you don't want your ale completely flat. Its always nice to get a head on draft ale I find.

[adm]

The thing with cornys and regulators is that you can get the beer to EXACTLY the carbonation level you want. Then you can have multiple cornies all at different pressures for different styles, then you can put them in a fridge so they are at just the right temperature. Then you can run beer lines from them to wherever you want your taps. What else.....oh yeah they are totally opaque so there's no issue of potentially getting lightstruck beer.

And.....ummm......they're easy to clean, they have a very small footprint so they are easy to store.

All in all, they're bloody great. I'm really pleased I bit the bullet up front and went for a corny setup as soon as I started AG brewing. I've got 6 now and feel another 4 or so coming on. They get lonely you know - they work better in packs. Truthfully though, once you have the gas set up, they are cheaper than barrels to buy. A king keg is £40+, and a corny is £30 or less. They are also more flexible as the quick disconnects make them a joy to use.

[RichardG]

The question partly arose from an idea for a party sometime around Christmas. It was suggested that I produce a beer, which got me thinking. Why not use a barrel? It would certainly be easier than all those bottles on this occassion and avoid me having to wander round collecting them all again! I note the comments about air getting to the beer and spoiling it, but how long would that take? It's unlikely the brew produced would last out the evening, so is it an issue in this case?

[jdt199]

If your drinking a whole barrel in one night you will probably be fine with air getting in. Oxidation wont effect a whole barrel that quick, so long as you drink the lot in one session. You will have problems with the beer going flat, quite fast though, without any pressure. Even though I agree with you that ale should not be really gassy, you still want a fizz on the tongue and it to maintain a good head. Without pressure it will go completely flat in a short space of time. If I were you and wanted a quick solution I would get a 5 gal budget barrel for around £28 and some 8gram co2 bulbs(£4-£5) at hop and grape (Make sure you get the cap for 8gram bulbs).

That should do ya. I would be worried about opening a keg and it depressurising.

[RichardG]

Thanks very much guys, that's all most interesting and informative. I'll look at the possibility of barrels, but only if it's cost effective long term Cheers!

[jdt199]

The thing with cornys and regulators is that you can get the beer to EXACTLY the carbonation level you want. Then you can have multiple cornies all at different pressures for different styles, then you can put them in a fridge so they are at just the right temperature. Then you can run beer lines from them to wherever you want your taps. What else.....oh yeah they are totally opaque so there's no issue of potentially getting lightstruck beer.

And.....ummm......they're easy to clean, they have a very small footprint so they are easy to store.

All in all, they're bloody great. I'm really pleased I bit the bullet up front and went for a corny setup as soon as I started AG brewing. I've got 6 now and feel another 4 or so coming on. They get lonely you know - they work better in packs. Truthfully though, once you have the gas set up, they are cheaper than barrels to buy. A king keg is £40+, and a corny is £30 or less. They are also more flexible as the quick disconnects make them a joy to use.

As I have only just invested in my first cornie and not got all my kit toghether yet I would be interested to know exacly what your setup is. Also where do you get your cornies and regulators from and how do the fixings work? The cornie I got of Ebay for £20 and is a pinlock fitting one. The fitttings I bought have 3/8" connectors. What should I get to connect to my regulator (when I get it) and what tap to dispense?

Cheers

[Damfoose]

You may be intrested in This so you can convert your cornie to the standard fittings , If you got your cornie from greenman then the standard fittings should fit with no problems as the threads should be the same. if you have a brew shop close by then ask them if they have a bag of old fittings and see if you can take your cornie in to swap them to the standard push fittings they may charge you a few pounds for them but it makes life easier.

[adm]

The thing with cornys and regulators is that you can get the beer to EXACTLY the carbonation level you want. Then you can have multiple cornies all at different pressures for different styles, then you can put them in a fridge so they are at just the right temperature. Then you can run beer lines from them to wherever you want your taps. What else.....oh yeah they are totally opaque so there's no issue of potentially getting lightstruck beer.

And.....ummm......they're easy to clean, they have a very small footprint so they are easy to store.

All in all, they're bloody great. I'm really pleased I bit the bullet up front and went for a corny setup as soon as I started AG brewing. I've got 6 now and feel another 4 or so coming on. They get lonely you know - they work better in packs. Truthfully though, once you have the gas set up, they are cheaper than barrels to buy. A king keg is £40+, and a corny is £30 or less. They are also more flexible as the quick disconnects make them a joy to use.

As I have only just invested in my first cornie and not got all my kit toghether yet I would be interested to know exacly what your setup is. Also where do you get your cornies and regulators from and how do the fixings work? The cornie I got of Ebay for £20 and is a pinlock fitting one. The fitttings I bought have 3/8" connectors. What should I get to connect to my regulator (when I get it) and what tap to dispense?

Cheers

Hi jdt,

I use a 7kg pub gas cylinder (no deposit, £14 to fill from my local calor gas supplier), this is attached to a regulator from Norm that has three separate low pressure outlets (so I can run up to 3 separate pressures at the same time). The reg has john guest 3/8 fittings, but I have converted these to 3/16 with john guest adaptors (so that I can run three gas lines into my keg fridge through one smallish hole). At the corny side, it's the same thing - 3/16 to 3/8 adaptors into the JG fittings on the kegs (ball lock). My keg fridge hold five cornys, so I just T the gasline with the relevant fittings. I get my cornys from Norm as well, and all the rest of the fittings from Harmony Hut on eBay.

For the taps, I use the Dalex flow control ones - again adapted from 3/8 to 3/16 as the 3/16 line is excellent for dispensing a foam free pint.

In summary - all my lines are 3/16 - both gas and beer. All fittings are 3/16 JG with adaptors to 3/8 to fit the regs and cornys.

Hope this helps!

[jdt199]

Cheers adm, that sounds like an impressive setup. Well I'll go one step at a time I think. I actually have a bid in for a reg from norm at present so will see how that goes, and I have a supplier I can pick gas up from at the weekend so its just the, fittings, line and tap I need to get hold of. I have to say its not easy at all trying to get a cornie setup up and running. Gas was the hardest thing to source and there doesn't seem to be a supllier anywhere in the UK that sells ALL the gear you need to get started. Its a case of various internet shops and then ebay to get everything toghether.

I did indded get my keg and pinlock fittings from Greenman, Damfoose why should I need to change the keg over to ball fittings as opposed to pinlock btw whats the advantage?

Cheers

[BodgerBill]

Hi!

I'm thinking about getting a corney set up. Who or what is this Norm your talking about? Can't find him on ebay...

BB