help with method please

[jimjamjamie0]

Hi, im on about my ninth kit all of which seem to get better with each new batch, but i am sure i saw the method (but cant remember where??) that a few days after primary fermentation after the head has fallen, to transfer the brew off to another fermenter (away from the yeast bed) to finish primary, then after primary has finished transfer again to another fv for a couple of days before bottle or keg.

I am assuming that the method is to give a clearer brew. i have always just done primary in one fv then as soon as got two reading on the hydro in 24 hrs then in to a seperate fv then few hrs later to bottle or keg. my brews have been fine but could do with being a little clearer but find it hard to leave for month on end

any help appriciated even if just telling me it would be a waste of time.


regards
jamie

[Garth]

I tried this and personally found it a waste of time, doing this there's more chance of it getting oxidised and also some of mine didn't drop to the correct gravity as I'd taken them off the yeast too early, leaving a weak sweet brew.

I now fement for five days to a week, then rack into keg with half a pint of isinglass, beer is clear as owt.

[jimjamjamie0]

thanks i have tried some kwik before but seems to make little difference to the brews i have just left as they are.

I was worried about the oxidisation and the risk of infection would increase i am sure.

ta

jamie

[mat69]

isn't putting it in bottles or a keg (after primary fermentation)a secondary anyway..

[jimjamjamie0]

isn't putting it in bottles or a keg (after primary fermentation)a secondary anyway..

yeah but i was thinking of moving the brew off the yeast bed and continuing primary simply in a second fv. then as you say secondary ferment in the bottle or keg

[mat69]

ahh so wot ya saying is you will have a primary,a second primary or a primary secondary,then a secondary...

[jimjamjamie0]

Yeah that explains it better, but as garth said it may just be a waste of time and increase the risks to much. So think i will just carry on doing it the normal way but go down the road of isingglass, i have been using a gelatine based finings which hasnt given much success.

[EoinMag]

3-4 weeks in one primary vessel is the way to go, get enough going on that you can wait that long, it's simple.

[Garth]

3-4 weeks in one primary vessel is the way to go, get enough going on that you can wait that long, it's simple.

I disagree, I don't think you'll do the beer any favours sitting on the yeast, alive and dead, and all the crap that falls to the bottom for that long.

I believe autolysis can occur which is when the beer sits on the yeast too long the yeast becomes canabalistic and starts eating itself producing minging flavours. Also as the yeast is finished there will be no more CO2 produced therefore allowing the beer to become oxidised.

Once fermentation is over, the beer should be either kegged and left to clear, or if you are bottling, moved to a secondary conditioning tank under a CO2 blanket (a cornie or keg) and chilled for a week or two to let more yeast drop out before bottling

[jimjamjamie0]

Once fermentation is over, the beer should be either kegged and left to clear, or if you are bottling, moved to a secondary conditioning tank under a CO2 blanket (a cornie or keg) and chilled for a week or two to let more yeast drop out before bottling

i assume that after putting in the keg before bottleing you would release the gas??

[Garth]

I assume that after putting in the keg before bottling you would release the gas??

not necessarily, that depends on how you bottle from the keg. I would leave the gas on, in fact I would turn it up more as I bottle from cornies with a beer gun which requires gas to the keg and gas to the gun as well.

If you are bottling from a plastic keg then yes, the gas would be released.

Of course some folk bottle straight from the primary fv, there isn't anything wrong with this way, and as long as you've used a particulary flocculent yeast like S-04 or Nottingham and left it a few days longer preferably in the cool then there shouldn't be massive amounts of yeast getting into the bottle. You only need a tiny thin layer on the bottom of the bottle to get that secondary fermentation which gives the beer a bit of sparkle and life.

[EoinMag]

3-4 weeks in one primary vessel is the way to go, get enough going on that you can wait that long, it's simple.

I disagree, I don't think you'll do the beer any favours sitting on the yeast, alive and dead, and all the crap that falls to the bottom for that long.

I believe autolysis can occur which is when the beer sits on the yeast too long the yeast becomes canabalistic and starts eating itself producing minging flavours. Also as the yeast is finished there will be no more CO2 produced therefore allowing the beer to become oxidised.

Once fermentation is over, the beer should be either kegged and left to clear, or if you are bottling, moved to a secondary conditioning tank under a CO2 blanket (a cornie or keg) and chilled for a week or two to let more yeast drop out before bottling

So how long until autolysis occurs? I've had beers 5 weeks in the fermenter, no problems at all.

I've been reading up a bit on this and discussions on other websites suggest autolysis is a bit of a bogeyman and will only rear it's head around the 3 month mark, if at all. Apparently if you walk into the fermenting room and it stinks to high heavens and makes you gag then the yeast has autolysed, but I'd be interested if you've had it happen yourself?

I believe that leaving the beer in the primary longer is the way to go and have very good fast conditioning results with it.

[EoinMag]

just to clarify, I use buckets with bubblers in and leave the lids unsnapped for the high krausen, once it dies I snap them down, so the oxidation argument in this case is moot, but even with a lid not snapped down it's a bit moot anyway as there won't be much air getting in there with no movement and it's not like you're splashing beer all over the place.

[Garth]

I've never left my beer for 3 or 4 weeks or longer on dirty trub and dead yeast to find out.

Five to seven days and my beer is out of the fermenter and into a cornie with isinglass, a week or so condition and it's getting drunk.

[EoinMag]

I've never left my beer for 3 or 4 weeks or longer on dirty trub and dead yeast to find out.

Five to seven days and my beer is out of the fermenter and into a cornie with isinglass, a week or so condition and it's getting drunk.

Try it out, you might be surprised how good beer tastes when it's had a while to condition and isn't rushed to the glass. Twelve days is Weizen territory.