What to brew?..

[bigdave]

I've got:

Lager malt - 15kg
Black malt - 1kg
Chocolate malt - 1kg
Wheat malt - 200g
Special B - 1kg
Munich malt - 400-500g
Crystal malt - 200g
Vienna malt - 400-500g

Apollo - 200g
Chinook - 200g
Amarillo - 200g
Perle - 40g
Bramling X - 20g
Rakau - 20g

Only yeast I have in stock is US-05

Any suggestions welcome.

[Underground Joe]

I'd do a 5.5%ish IPA with Apollo and Chinook, lager malt, Munich and then might as well chuck that little bit of wheat in for a bit of body/head retention.

[bigdave]

I've got a 5.7% IPA conditioning and a Double IPA dry hopping.

[bigdave]

I might try a black IPA.

[Dave S]

I might try a black IPA.

I still can't get my around the concept of black IPA. What colour will it be? Pale black? Or dark pale?

[bigdave]

I brewed a porter which was described as a black IPA once n that was VERY dark & thick.

[Underground Joe]

I've got a 5.7% IPA conditioning and a Double IPA dry hopping.

Chuck in some crystal and call it an amber.

[Matt12398]

All the wheat and crystal with enough lager malt to take you to 1.040. Take it to 45 IBUs with Apollo and a modest dry hop.

[Belter]

I might try a black IPA.

I still can't get my around the concept of black IPA. What colour will it be? Pale black? Or dark pale?

Black ipa's are ridiculous...

[bigdave]

Why?

[Belter]

Why?

IMHO they are a null style. An IPA which has been coloured black. Called 'black' India 'pale' ale. I tasted one. It tasted like an ipa but black. It's like green tomato sauce. I wouldn't make something black just because I could. If you're going to make something black, make it roasty. Again IMO.

[bigdave]

I agree that theres no point colouring something just for the sake of it. However, black ipa's are meant to be light in body, hoppy and have a good roasted malt back bone.

Maybe we should call them IBA's?

[Belter]

Agreed. The one I tasted 'proper black' tasted like proper job but black. I seem to recall Roger saying they were sent some carafa by mistake

[seymour]

IMHO they [Black IPAs] are a null style. An IPA which has been coloured black. Called 'black' India 'pale' ale. I tasted one. It tasted like an ipa but black. It's like green tomato sauce. I wouldn't make something black just because I could. If you're going to make something black, make it roasty. Again IMO.

I agree that theres no point colouring something just for the sake of it. However, black ipa's are meant to be light in body, hoppy and have a good roasted malt back bone.
Maybe we should call them IBA's?

This particular topic has been a big one for me lately too. Bigdave, my paradigm has shifted a bit since I reviewed your Malice Porter, which I said could be called a Black IPA. I might be wrong about that, from a strict style guideline point-of-view, though I still don't think there is a hard-and-fast consensus about brown and black IPAs yet. Even when those decisions are codified, there are likely to be big mistakes and misconceptions and controversial points, especially with regards to English brewing history, as we all well know. English Mild vs. Northern Brown Ale vs. Southern Brown Ale, anyone?

I recently attended a meeting of multi-award-winning homebrewers, most of them influential BJCP/AHA certified judges, some of whom have even been honored to brew their recipes on a commercial scale at local brewpubs, and the discussion of "Black IPA"/"Cascadian Dark Ale" came up. They all kept saying you should be able to close your eyes, and this beer would smell and taste exactly like a standard India PALE ale. They were all 100% convinced of this, as if it was written in stone. They accomplish this various ways: by cold-steeping the roasted malts, by sparging through dark malts only after completing the mash, through the use of specialized debittered roasted grains and "Carafa" products, etc. I knew that was one type of "Black IPA" but I didn't think that was the only way to look at it.

I agree with both of you. I think all three of us agree on the deliciousness of a dark, roasty and hoppy beer. The debate is about classification, which is kinda meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Dark grains look and smell the way they do because they've been caramelized/toasted/roasted longer than pale grains. This produces many delicious and complex melanoidins which make brown and black ales taste the way the do. I love 'em, and you love 'em. I really don't understand why you'd try to eliminate those aspects, but that seems to be the way the brewing industry wants to define the style. For years, the consensus has been: pale ales can be made very hoppy, but dark ales ought to remain malty. Of course, there have always been a few exceptions, and lately there are more and more hugely successful craft beers which are dark and hoppy, so everyone is scrambling to decide what to call them, and how to judge them.

Bigdave, I loved your beer. That's my interpretation of an ideal Black IPA: all the caramelly, fruity, bready, toasty, and roasty aspects of a porter or stout grainbill, but with an IPA hopbill, for extra bitter, tangy, floral, citrusy, resiny notes. Mmmmm. There are LOTS of beers like that, so they can't all be "outside-of-style", but I don't know which style we're supposed to call 'em, nor how to enter them in competititions without having all kinds of things marked as faults which aren't faults.

That's why I was so thrilled to discover Ron Pattinson's historical research about India Porter, which actually out-sold India Pale Ale back in the olden days. It all goes to show, you Englishmen knew how to brew the best beer all along, and there's nothing so new about these craft beer trends after all. But here's the irony: you couldn't brew those old recipes today and score well in a BJCP/AHA competition, because there is no category for it.

Who cares, though?! I'll go on drinking the hell outta my unclassifiably delicious beer. Geez that was a long response, and still no recipe, which is what you originally asked for...

[bigdave]

Thanks for the response dude. It's always nice to read your comments as they're so informative and considered.

I might just re-brew my Malice Porter with the intention of it having a big hop hit.