morreti bier

[SHIELDS EXILE]

Has anyone got an extract recipe for thisbeer, I have read that it is a bock style, which I thought came from Germany?

[seymour]

I wasn't sure which Birra Moretti you meant, so here are both recipes. Neither is technically a standard bock, but you're right, La Rossa is a doppelbock (German for "double").

Another quibble, forgive me, but to aid your search Moretti is spelled with one R and two Ts.

To adapt these all-grain recipes, simply replace the pale malt with enough pale malt extract to reach the original gravity, and steep either flaked maize or crystal malt.

Birra Moretti
Brewery: Heineken Italia in Milano, Italy
Style: Pale Lager
OG: 1045
ABV: 4.6%
Grainbill: 70% Pale, 30% Flaked Maize
Hops: Hallertau
IBU: 21
Colour: clear straw
Yeast: probably Heineken A-yeast, Dr Elion's 1886 pure yeast culture


Birra Moretti La Rossa
Heineken Italia in Milano, Italy
Style: Doppelbock
OG: 1071
ABV: 7.2%
Grainbill: 90% Pale, 10% Crystal Malt (no adjuncts)
Hops: Hallertau (60 min), Spalt (15 min)
IBU: 24
Colour: clear reddish amber
Yeast: probably Heineken A-yeast, Dr Elion's 1886 pure yeast culture

[andyCo]

Birra moretti la rossa, under grain bil its 10% pale 90% crystal...thats a lot of crystal ..think that might be round the wrong way buddy...

Andy

[seymour]

Birra moretti la rossa, under grain bil its 10% pale 90% crystal...thats a lot of crystal ..think that might be round the wrong way buddy...

Andy

You're exactly right. Thanks for pointing that out. I've corrected the above entry.

[6470zzy]

steep either flaked maize or crystal malt.

You need to mash the flaked maize, steeping will give you nowt.

[seymour]

steep either flaked maize or crystal malt.

You need to mash the flaked maize, steeping will give you nowt.

I think you might be surprised. Good quality fresh liquid malt extract has a surprising amount of diastatic power. Flaked maize is already pre-gelatinized and pretty easily converted. Mashing would definitely lead to higher conversion, but you'd still get some fermentable contribution from steeping.

[Barley Water]

Well that's a new one for me; you learn something every day. My understanding has always been that extracts had the enzymes nuked during the production process unless you purchased the kind that still had the enzymes present. Of course, I haven't done an extract batch in many, many years so maybe things have changed. I'm still reeling from the introduction of the thermometer truth be told. Anyhow, if you try that and indeed the extract fails to convert the flaked corn you are gonna get some serious starch haze and the beer will end up being biologically unstable as well. I have however used flaked maize many times and it does convert easily in a normal mashing situation. I also screw around quite a bit with ceral mashing of ground corn and in my oh so humble opinion it makes the beer taste better although the difference is admitadly very minor. I like adding adjuncts to beer when I am trying to thin it out a little; I've recently done it with an ESB, English IPA and of course a CAP. I think corn adds a certain sweet background flavor, one of these days I'll try screwing around with rice just to see what happens.

[6470zzy]

steep either flaked maize or crystal malt.

You need to mash the flaked maize, steeping will give you nowt.

I think you might be surprised. Good quality fresh liquid malt extract has a surprising amount of diastatic power. Flaked maize is already pre-gelatinized and pretty easily converted. Mashing would definitely lead to higher conversion, but you'd still get some fermentable contribution from steeping.

I use Coopers LME and it has no diastatic power as a result of the boil during manufacturing.

[seymour]

I use Coopers LME and it has no diastatic power as a result of the boil during manufacturing.

No offense, but I think you might be mistaken. Coopers Liquid Malt Extract is not boiled during manufacturing. Rather, it is evaporated. Some of their products are evaporated at temperatures below the diastatic enzyme kill level, some are evaporated above that temperature threshold. I obviously don't know which exact Coopers LME you use, but in my experience the plain-ol' stuff in their kits does indeed have diastatic power sufficient to convert some starches to sugar, and even when steeping unmalted grains, I have not suffered from excessive haze or spoilage in my finished beers. Your mileage may vary, but "don't knock it 'til you try it!"

See: https://www.coopers.com.au/coopers-forum/topic/9332/

I'm not sure where this assumption that malt extract is pre-boiled originated. Unless the product specifically says so, it is not boiled by design. That would defeat the purpose. In fact, the historic English Diastatic Malt Extract (EDME) company invented the product as an additive to increase commercial brewers' mash conversion efficiencies, lending "more bang for their buck" to their existing grainbills.

[Barley Water]

Well one thing everyone here must admit, for a Yankee Mr. Seymour is certainly a cornecopia of knowlege (and I for one appreciate his input; it's good to learn new things). By the way Mr. Seymour would be proud of me, last weekend I brewed a "Surley Bender" type American Brown Ale and and yes; there is a sizable amount of oats in the grist. I also got to use the Hop Rocket I got for Christmas for the first time with that beer and once I see how it turns out I'll report back on these forums.

[raiderman]

Back in the days I first started out when Boots sold home-brew all you could get aside from spray malt was DMS or Supaflex cans of malt extract and if you wanted a partial mash because a recpie called for flaked barley or some such then DMS did the trick, standing for Diatastic malt syrup. You youngsters have it so easy nowadays.......

[6470zzy]

I'm not sure where this assumption that malt extract is pre-boiled originated. Unless the product specifically says so, it is not boiled by design. That would defeat the purpose. In fact, the historic English Diastatic Malt Extract (EDME) company invented the product as an additive to increase commercial brewers' mash conversion efficiencies, lending "more bang for their buck" to their existing grainbills.

I just received an email from Coopers, so unless they aren't telling me the truth ............ I stand by my assertions ... no diastatic power in their (Cooper's) LME .

Cheers

[6470zzy]

Well one thing everyone here must admit, for a Yankee Mr. Seymour is certainly a cornecopia of knowlege (and I for one appreciate his input; it's good to learn new things).

I would go so far as to say that I appreciate everyone's input on this forum. We can all learn from each other

[seymour]

I would go so far as to say that I appreciate everyone's input on this forum. We can all learn from each other

I agree 100%. I'm not claiming to know better than anyone else. If Coopers tells you their product is not diastatic, who am I to say otherwise? I'm just saying it worked that way when I used it, and information shared elsewhere on the Coopers site backs that up.

No doubt about it, if you want full and complete conversion of any unmalted grain, you'd benefit from the extra hassle of a mini-mash or cereal mash step. Hell, for the purpose of an extract Moretti clone, LME + corn syrup would probably be easier and just as authentic-tasting.

Cheers!

[SHIELDS EXILE]

I like the 7.5 ABV recipe Seymore gave us,and after all the talk about the diastatic power of Coopers LME, Iphoned their brewing helpline 1300654455,and thebrewer himself said that all their malt extracts are boiled for one hour and have no active diastase, either A,or B amylase.They are about 25 kms from my house here in Adelaide South Australia.