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boots pressure barrel cap

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boots pressure barrel cap

Postby sam c » Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:41 pm

today ive been given an old boots pressure barrel. ive been reading posts on here and it seems that a few people are saying that the injector thingy on the top of the cap isnt really that great. the one i have is the same as the pic in this link.....viewtopic.php?t=7287&highlight=boots


i read that it is good to replace these with s30 injectors rather than using the little co2 bubls although i have already brought ssome of these.

so do i have to replace the whole lid or just take off the current one and replace it with an s30 one?

would someone be able to show which of the ones in this link is suitable...http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... pares.html?

also is this pretty much it apart from changing any rubbish washers ect that i will need to get this keg going?

thanks
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby grmills » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:46 pm

I think you'll struggle to buy a new cap for this, but luckily you shouldn't need to. I reckon you need "Ref: 101418" from your link, that's what my King Kegs came with ready fitted anyway. Other than that, one or more gaskets may be shot, the tap may leak, and the barrel may have a leak or a split*. On the other hand it could be fine, try it and see.

*One of my Boots barrels split in 1982, parked on the back seat of a Wolseley on the way to the Lakes. The girl who had to sit in a puddle of beer for 400 miles was not amused... :wall
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby sam c » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:39 pm

cheers for the reply.

i just filled the keg with a co2 bulb with no liquid in it and held it under water to test for leaks. all seems well apart from the rubber washer on top of the lid which i thought was buggered as it has started to perish. so thats no probs to replace.

could you possible tell me a little about how to top up the correct amount of gas? so when i keg it im planning on priming as per usualy with 80 grams sugar. my understanding is that once im about half way down the keg it will need topping up with gas. do i simple screw in one co2 bulb and let it release all the gas in? how will i know what psi it will be or will it just regulate itself and keep adding a little more gas from the bulb as its needed? if that makes sense.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby minimilo » Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:28 pm

Hello, I have also been given a Boots pressure barrel without a 4" lid, any ideas where a maybe able obtain one? Thanks
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Lillywhite » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:31 pm

minimilo wrote:..... I have also been given a Boots pressure barrel without a 4" lid, any ideas where a maybe able obtain one?


King Keg caps should fit.

Obtainable here:-

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/ca ... COR2017256

Item 06.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby grmills » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:28 pm

Lillywhite wrote:
minimilo wrote:..... I have also been given a Boots pressure barrel without a 4" lid, any ideas where a maybe able obtain one?


King Keg caps should fit.

Obtainable here:-

http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/ca ... COR2017256

Item 06.


Don't think they do, I couldn't get Boots 4" caps to fit a King Keg although they might work the other way around.

sam c wrote:could you possible tell me a little about how to top up the correct amount of gas? so when i keg it im planning on priming as per usualy with 80 grams sugar. my understanding is that once im about half way down the keg it will need topping up with gas. do i simple screw in one co2 bulb and let it release all the gas in? how will i know what psi it will be or will it just regulate itself and keep adding a little more gas from the bulb as its needed? if that makes sense.


The gassing required depends on (a) the residual sugars in your beer when you barrel it, (b) how quickly you drink it and (c) how fizzy you like your beer. I often have barrels which don't require any extra CO2 at all, but I don't particularly like burping.

The Sodastream CO2 bottles don't screw in, just press into the brass valve and it will release a burst of CO2 into the barrel, you can get more in as the barrel empties of beer as there's more volume for the gas to compress into. The valve incorporates a pressure relief component so it should be impossible to rupture the barrel.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby sam c » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:21 pm

thanks again.

another one for you if you dont mind?

how do you know how what PSI it is?

also if adding a bulb once half way down the keg will i just need the one or do you think i would then add another later? obivously this deppends on how fizzy how long but id just like to get an idea.

so the sittuation being ive drunk half my keg within 2 weeks and i add a bulb and want it to last a further 1 -2 weeks. i like my ales as i get them in the pub although a little extra fizz is fine for me

cheers
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby grmills » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:35 am

As far as I'm aware the only way to know the PSI is to fit a pressure guage to the barrel cap.

It's probably 20 years since I used the CO2 sparklet(?) bulbs so my knowledge is far from current but I don't recall them producing a huge amount of gas. I seem to remember putting three or four into a barrel but I was brewing Boots kits then so that doesn't really mean much, I'm not trying to be unhelpful but I wouldn't like to hazard a guess how many you'll use - best someone who uses them advises, anyone??
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Lillywhite » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:10 pm

grmills wrote: I'm not trying to be unhelpful but I wouldn't like to hazard a guess how many you'll use - best someone who uses them advises, anyone??


The amount of CO2 you need to add, either by CO2 bulbs or via a S30 gas cylinder depends on many factors, particularly how quick you want to drink and how many pints you draw off in one session.

I've had kegs where I havn't needed any additional gas to dispense.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Dr. Dextrin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:02 pm

Lillywhite wrote:The amount of CO2 you need to add, either by CO2 bulbs or via a S30 gas cylinder depends on many factors, particularly how quick you want to drink and how many pints you draw off in one session.

I've had kegs where I haven't needed any additional gas to dispense.

You tend to need more gas if the barrel is initially quite full. Although you may get the whole barrel out without adding more gas if you drink slowly, you'll probably find the last half is quite flat - probably significantly less fizzy than you're used to in a pub. I find it's difficult to get the fizz back in once this has happened. I put 40 pints in my barrels (which makes them about 75% full) and add 4oz of priming sugar. Then I reckon on using 4 or 5 small CO2 bulbs as I like my beer reasonably well conditioned - YMMV.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby loffler » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:00 pm

A while ago I received 2 boots barrels from a charity shop and set about fixing them up.
Every cap i tried did not fit. most were too big or the threads didnt match.
I then purchased a couple red Hambledon Bard caps with the s30 valve and pressure relief valve in. The caps didnt fit but transfered the valves to the original boots caps.
I removed the bulb arrangement and increased the size of the holes to accept the new brassware.
Got a new barrel tap and they now look as good as new with an S30 inlet and PRV.
Unfortuanetly the cap and oring on one of the barrels is shot and as I cant replace them I can only use one of them.

I use my widget world converter to attach the soda stream canister to them.
Ive had a bunch of coopers stout in it for ages and not had any problems.

Be sure the caps and orings seal before spending too much time/money on them as you wont be able to replace them with new parts should they leak.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Tim W » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:01 pm

I worked out that the 'sparklet' bulbs hold 8g of CO2 which is about 4l or 7 pints of gas (at atmospheric pressure).

So, If you add 7 pints of gas, then you can draw off another 7 pints, right? It's not quite that simple though as when you add one to the barrel, some of it dissolves into the beer, and the amount dissolved depends on the pressure in the barrel, temperature, alcohol content, etc. In practice, you seem to be able to draw off 7 'nearly pints' immediately after.


It seems as though the secondary fermentation goes on for weeks and weeks as my 7 week mature Tom Caxton is still producing enough gas to deliver nearly a pint every day. It might well be different in the winter though as it is very temperature dependant.

I have had some barrels (notably a Woodforde's Wherry) that have not needed any extra gas and have still had loads of pressure even after the beer is below tap level. I've also had some that have needed 4 or 5 gas bulbs and I've had the last few pints flat when I've taken the lid off when nearly empty.

Generally though I only need one or two per barrel to help the beer catch up to my drinking speed!

I would be interested to know how much priming sugar is required to create 1 litre (2g) of gas. Maybe I could dig out my old chemistry school books and work it out, something to do with molar masses?

I use 2 budget barrels, but I only use the injector caps as I am not convinced that the basic plastic safety vent caps are that good at holding pressure over a long time. That said, the whole arrangement is a bit crude, it would be much better with a cap that didn't turn against the barrel that was tightened down with a separate locking ring. That way the seal would just be squashed rather than squashed and twisted at the same time. With my barrels, if you tighten the caps too tightly the sealing ring pops into the barrel.
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby sam c » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:13 pm

thanks very much everyone, thats just the sort of advice i was after. thats given me a much better idea of what to expect.

so off to the hbs to get some replacement seals and maybe a tap and then onto my first kegging this weekend.

cheers
DRINKING: cobb's kolsch, four shades of. Stout,
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Lillywhite » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:00 am

Dr. Dextrin wrote:You tend to need more gas if the barrel is initially quite full.


More gas? I think you mean less gas. :wink:
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Re: boots pressure barrel cap

Postby Dr. Dextrin » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:09 pm

Lillywhite wrote:
Dr. Dextrin wrote:You tend to need more gas if the barrel is initially quite full.


More gas? I think you mean less gas. :wink:

I find I need to add more gas. If the barrel is quite full to start with, there is little head space so the priming sugar builds up enough pressure to force gas out through the pressure release valve. As the beer level drops, the small initial head space expands and the pressure drops rapidly.

If I leave a larger head space, all the priming gas is retained. Also the relative expansion of the head space is less as the beer is drawn off.

At least, that's my experience. As I say, YMMV. I suspect temperature also plays a large part.
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