Adjuncts

[Paul Stevenson]

I want to brew a batch of Mild, and need to make some flaked barley and maize. How do I do this? Would steaming the grains in a pressure-cooker make them soft enough to be rolled?

I have also made some torrefied barley by popping it in a hot pan. Is this the best way to do it?

Do all these adjuncts have to be mashed, or can they simply be boiled with non-diastatic malt extract?

[Aleman]

You would need to mash them I'm afraid Paul. You don't need to 'make' flaked barley etc, If you are mashing you put the adjuncts (Crush the grain first) in a pot with 1/3 of its weight in grain, mash for 10-15 minutes, then bring to the boil and boil for 20-30 minutes, then add it to the main mash for another 60 minutes.

[steve_flack]

I think a separate cereal mash is overkill for the (usually) small amounts you'd use in a mild. Both flaked barley and flaked corn are already gelatinised by the rolling process and you can just chuck them in the main mash. If you using a load of them (like in a CAP) then you probably have a point.

For extract brewers then yes you need to do a separate mini-mash with some pale malt then add it to the extract boil.

[Aleman]

Steve, the OP said he had to make some flaked barley/maize, A cereal mash gelatinises the starches, making the production of the flaked adjuncts unnecessary

[steve_flack]

Why make them yourself? It's like trying to malt your own barley - pointless and you won't do it any better than people that actually know what they're doing.

[steve_flack]

Whilst on the subject of adjuncts - is flaked wheat the same as torrified except one is flat and rolled and the other round? Do they taste the same?

Oh and can you use Shredded Wheat to replace wheat flakes?

[Barley Water]

As long as we are discussing adjuncts and cereal mashes I have a question. I made a pretty good CAP last spring which used alot of flaked maize. To me, the stuff is easy to use, just mash it like any other grain with the rest of the fermentables. My question is: would the beer taste any better if I got some grits and did a ceral mash rather than just using the flakes? If there is no improvement in flavor I wouldn't bother but if there is, I would be willing to go to the trouble.

[Aleman]

I made a pretty good CAP last spring which used a lot of flaked maize. <snip>My question is: would the beer taste any better if I got some grits and did a cereal mash rather than just using the flakes?

I have made the 'same' worts using flaked adjuncts and 'grits' and without a doubt the beers with a better flavour were the ones that had been cereal mashed. Another variation on the theme was to use flaked adjunct and melanoidin rich malts, to simulate the effects of the cereal mash, these beers were better than the straight forward flaked beers, and only marginally (IMO) 'worse' than the cereal mashed beers.

Like all things brewing related, it depends on what works in your brewing setup, and the only way to find out if you get a significant difference is to try it and see. I no longer use flaked corn/rice in my CAP, and alsways cereal mash. YMMV

[Aleman]

Whilst on the subject of adjuncts - is flaked wheat the same as torrified except one is flat and rolled and the other round? Do they taste the same?

Not from what I understand. Flaked wheat is cooked in water to above the gelatinisation temp of the wheat starch, the water is then drained and the grain tipped onto a conveyor which conveys the grain over heated rollers where it is flattened and dried. Torrified wehat on the other had is made in a similar way to popcorn in that very hot air is forced through the grain, and this caused the grain to 'pop' making the starches available to the enzymes in the mash

Do they taste the same?

I don't think so, as I've said before, I do not like the taste of torrified grain, and can often detect its presence in amounts as low as 5% of the grist. Flaked wheat is less detectable to my palate, and is certainly a lot less objectionable IMO.

Oh and can you use Shredded Wheat to replace wheat flakes?

I know they say no added whatever but . . . . . I suspect that in an emergency shredded wheat would work well . . . But not the Honey Nut one

[Barley Water]

Thanks for that Aleman, I will give it a try. I guess I should at least expect the same benefit as one would get from doing a decoction (since that is pretty much what you are doing with the cereal mash when you boil it). I have not messed around with cereal mashes before but if I can get it to work, I can think of at least one other application for the technique which might be fun. I swear this hobby affords unending educational opportunities.

[Aleman]

I guess I should at least expect the same benefit as one would get from doing a decoction

Correct, as that is pretty much what you are doing, one other thing I have noticed is that my mash efficiency rises considerably (to around 92-95%) using a cereal mash. I know of one other brewer who uses a 22qt pressure cooker to do his cereal mash, he says the boil under pressure really brings on the melanoidin production, and makes for big malty flavours in the final beer.

[steve_flack]

Another variation on the theme was to use flaked adjunct and melanoidin rich malts, to simulate the effects of the cereal mash, these beers were better than the straight forward flaked beers, and only marginally (IMO) 'worse' than the cereal mashed beers.

So how which and how much melanoidin malts would you use - the obvious choice would be 'melanoidin malt' itself but it isn't the only option.

[Barley Water]

First of all Paul, I am sorry for hijacking the thread even more but I have another question for Aleman: You mention doing a cereal mash with a pressure cooker, can you give the unschooled among us any additional information about that technique? I have read some slight mention of using a pressure cooker to do decoctions (and I am assuming that the technique is more or less the same) but no details were given. I brew a fair amount of German lager (and wheat beers which I decoct) and anything that would help me avoid a couple hours of stirring boiling grains/adjucts would be welcome.

By the way, great information on this thread, I really appreciate the collective knowlege. The only problem is that now my brewing plans will have to be modified as I really want to try out a ceral mash.