Final Gravity 1020!!!????

[Frenchie Laurence]

Hello all, this is my first message to your forum, so Hi everybody!
i have brewed a "porter" type beer with a mixture of Malt syrup and mashed grains, OG 1046, using Windsor Yeast (not use that one before).While it all started well, nice cake etc, it seems to stop after 72hrs, and gravity was at 1020 and remained at 1020 (8 days now). Is that ok or should i really worry????? it's my 10th batch so am a bit of a beginner really....

[Buzz]

I used Windsor for the first time on my most recent brew and it's only got to 1024 so I think you've done well. I've read that Windsor does finish quite high - 1018 may be the best you could expect.

[macleanb]

Hi Frenchie

How did it taste - really sweet? Would a 1/4 pack of dry beer enzyme move it on a bit (do you think it needs moving on?)

I have just done my first AG using Windsor because I do like a fair degree of sweetness, but I dont want to be drinking syrup!


cheers & ttfn benm

[Aleman]

My last Windsor brew went from 1.056 to 1.012, which was a real pain as I wanted some residual sweetness in the beer. I find that Windsor like it a bit warmer than Nottingham say 22C rather than 20C, I would also suggest that rousing is something you can try, just a gentle stirring with the paddle to wake it up a bit

[macleanb]

Mines just gone from 1051 to ~1018 in 36 hours (its cooled itself down now, but was up at 23c for a while). It wasnt tasting that sweet, and I'm guessing its got a fair bit to go...

[Buzz]

I've given up on my Windsor. 1055 down to 1024 in 7 days and stuck at 1024 for a further 4 days despite an increase in temperature and a rouse.*

Re-pitched last night with S-04 to see if I can get it going again. I was hoping for something in the region of a 4.7% so needed around 1018. If it doesn't shift looks like it's only going to be a 4%'er.

Interestingly I did another batch of the same brew 9 days later and used S-04 from the outset. Be interesting to see how they compare. The second brew is 4 days in and still fermenting away nicely. I'll take a reading on Friday.

* must admit i didn't make the usual flying starter with this one. Just followed the instructions exactly as per the Danstar website (as it was my first time with this yeast), so this may explain why it didn't do it's thing quite as it should. I'll know better next time. link here

[Frenchie Laurence]

Thanks guys! that is helpful, it doesnt taste sweet at all, so i might just leave it, rack it, and bottle it in a week or so. It will be weak but tasty i guess. I would be curious to know what you got with the Safale04 and same recipe Buzz.

[Buzz]

Thanks guys! that is helpful, it doesnt taste sweet at all, so i might just leave it, rack it, and bottle it in a week or so. It will be weak but tasty i guess. I would be curious to know what you got with the Safale04 and same recipe Buzz.

I'll stick a post on here and let you know when they've both finished.

[SteveD]

1I've given up on my Windsor.

* must admit i didn't make the usual flying starter with this one. Just followed the instructions exactly as per the Danstar website (as it was my first time with this yeast), so this may explain why it didn't do it's thing quite as it should. I'll know better next time. link here

If you followed their instructions why shouldn't it have worked? That's all I do and it works fine. Let's face it, Danstar know their yeast, so why would they give starting instructions that are not going to give it the best start? What I also do is make sure there's enough O2 in the wort, and use 2 packs or more depending on OG. For 24L - 2 packs up to about OG1050, 3 packs up to OG 1070, and 4 packs up from there.

What you can also do if the yeast is still going, albeit slow, is add 1/2tsp of Yeast Vit and give it a gentle rouse. It's a specific beer yeast nutrient, as opposed to a general nutrient as a wine maker would use.

[Buzz]

If you followed their instructions why shouldn't it have worked? That's all I do and it works fine. Let's face it, Danstar know their yeast, so why would they give starting instructions that are not going to give it the best start? What I also do is make sure there's enough O2 in the wort, and use 2 packs or more depending on OG. For 24L - 2 packs up to about OG1050, 3 packs up to OG 1070, and 4 packs up from there.

What you can also do if the yeast is still going, albeit slow, is add 1/2tsp of Yeast Vit and give it a gentle rouse. It's a specific beer yeast nutrient, as opposed to a general nutrient as a wine maker would use.

I'm not sure why it didn't work (and I used 2 pkts). The only thing I could put it down to was that I didn't make up the starter in the same way as I usually would. All other variables were the same as previous brews with with either S-04 or MPG, same temperature etc.

I did rouse but to no avail so I re-pitched and added half a tsp of Yeast Vit at the same time.

The only other possible is that I overshot my target gravity on this one and topped up with water via an unsantised jug by mistake. I had wondered whether an infection had got in and stopped the yeast short? I've had a taste though and it doesn't seem to taste bad yet. I guess time will tell...

Let's face it, Danstar know their yeast, so why would they give starting instructions that are not going to give it the best start?

Interesting that they state quite clearly 'It is unnecessary to aerate the wort' though.

[Aleman]

Let's face it, Danstar know their yeast, so why would they give starting instructions that are not going to give it the best start?

Interesting that they state quite clearly 'It is unnecessary to aerate the wort' though.

Generally, the dried yeasts contain sufficient sterols to enable them to reproduce fully without any further aeration of the wort . . . . Which is fine for a single use . . . . When you want to repitch the yeast that is when you need to ensure that you adequately aerate and that your wort contains a sufficient amount of Unsatuarated Fatty Acids, the oxygen is absorbed early in the 'fermentation' and later on as fermentation slows the compounds that absorb the oxygen are metabolised along with the UFAs to build up a reserve of sterols.

Problem is when yeast encounter a growth limiting factor the cell wall changes its structure to encourage floculation, and hence fermentation stops early . . . . Of course it does depend on what/how the supplier has packaged/produced its yeast, SO4 being the classic that requires additional O2 to 'guarantee' complete attenuation.

[Buzz]

Despite this, I did aerate as normal when using the Windsor. And, having used 2 pkts, I wouldn't expect both batches to have had problems. I'm going to check the gravity on that batch that I re-pitched to see if it's got it going again. If it hasn't I think maybe it's that unsanitsed jug that's done my yeast in.

(my apologies for hijacking this thread FL)

[SteveD]

Or it was just a duff batch of yeast. It happens. On the face of it it doesn't sound like your process was at fault. As Daab said - if there was an infection in there virulent enough to stop the yeast, you'd know about it!

I've had no problems with attenuation for ages since I upped the dosage and aerated more throughly (with O2 and an airstone) until recently suddenly a batch of porter stopped at 1020 from 1061. This was with Nottingham which can take a 60 gravity beer down to 9 if you let it. I did mash hot 67-68c to get body and there was a fair slug of brown malt in it so I might expect it to stop a bit earlier, but even so I felt it had stopped quite short. I hadn't change anything in the process, and subsequent batches have gone back to being fine. - Fickle yeast! Still, it doesn't taste too sweet, reasonably balanced as it's fairly bitter.

I'm always unsure as to wether Danstar mean the starter doesn't need aeration, or the main batch. I haven't the balls to try not aerating the main wort and seeing what happens.

[Buzz]

I've just taken gravity readings again and checked back through my notes for both brews and I think I know what it is.

Both fermenting at 21deg:
Windsor brew (13th Feb) 1055og currently down to 1024 and stuck.
S-04 brew (22nd Feb) 1054og currently down to 1021 and still going.

Reading back, I used 2 tablespoons of Gypsum in the Windsor brew (I read in GW's book that whilst Gypsum can help lower the PH, it can leave the yeast with a deficiency of phosphate and poor yeast performance may ensue). In the S-04 brew I used some PH5.2 stabliser instead of Gypsum.

I reckon the yeast is fine (sorry Danstar) and that the Gypsum is to blame for the poor performance of the first brew. Both samples taste okay and there's definitely no hint of infection in the first one (although there is a very oily type scum on the surface - is this hop oil?) Doesn't look very apitizing - don't appear to have the same look about the S-04 one, although that is 9 days younger.

[SteveD]

Reading back, I used 2 tablespoons of Gypsum in the Windsor brew (I read in GW's book that whilst Gypsum can help lower the PH, it can leave the yeast with a deficiency of phosphate and poor yeast performance may ensue). In the S-04 brew I used some PH5.2 stabliser instead of Gypsum.

I reckon the yeast is fine (sorry Danstar) and that the Gypsum is to blame for the poor performance of the first brew. Both samples taste okay and there's definitely no hint of infection in the first one (although there is a very oily type scum on the surface - is this hop oil?)

You added yeast vit though - that should have restored the phosphate. 2 tablespoons - assuming 2 level 15ml spoons, and not heaped dinner spoons, doesn't sound excessive unless your water is already high in Calcium sulphate. Still, it's a possible explanation. Any sulphurous aroma noticeable?

Oily surface not really what you want. Some bacetrial infections give an oily appearance to the wort, but I'm sure you'd taste that. I doubt it's hop oil, unless you poured a load in. Note what your head formation/retention is like on this one.