Getting rid of Diacetyl

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:57 pm

Hi again guys, just a quick Q re. diacetyl.

My first AG is in the only FV I have so I need it out and in the keg asap.

Now, as it has diacetyl it needs to be left on the yeast cake so the yeast can eat it. I was thinking of transferring the beer to a keg and repitching with fresh yeast. Would this work?

I'm also worried it may start to go off if left too long (10 days and counting). I know it can be left safely for two weeks, maybe even three, but I needs me fermenter back!

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:00 pm

Oh, here's the links to the pics I took of my first brew day. Sorry it's taken so long, just found my cam to pc lead.

Three elements used as I made the hole too big. Oops # 1.

The grain bill.

Under that lot lies my boiler/mash tun and a keg of hot water for company.

Oops # 2. I forgot to put an element in the FV to heat the sparge water. So I had to move the grain from my mash tun to this pan, heat up 5 gallons of water then put the grains back. Oh dear.

The first runnings. End result is a lot lighter than that.

Spent grain bill.

First addition of hops.

Coming to the boil in a min.

Heat off, could watch it settle for hours. Mandlebrot city!

Oops # 3. Nowhere near enough aeration. Thus the reason I suffered diacetyl problems.

Sorry the pics aren't very good quality, phone cam to blame

Just wish I had more to share but when things got hairy I didn't think of the cam. I think i'll get the missus to take pics as I go next time, which should be soon.

See ya.

Post by **Aleman** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:57 pm

Steve,

Pitching a quantity of actively fermenting wort into you current beer can help clear up you diacetyl, but you are talking around 10% of the current batch, so a good couple of litres and 5 would be a better option. Obviously adding this sort of quantity means that the wort should be very similar to you existing one . . . You could try a minimash to make it, or make some wort using dme to a similar gravity, and boil it with some hops for 30 minutes, cool and rack, pitch a sachet (YES a whole one!) of yeast and allow it to get working . . . The add it to the beer, it should clear up the beer in a matter of days (Keep it on the warm side 20C), but allow a week. Of course you will have to allow the extra yeast time to fall out of suspension.

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:28 pm

Thanks guys. Re. starting another one to transfer - it sounds a little bit of a chew on. DaaB - If I transfered some slurry over would that not be the same as leaving it in the FV? I.e would the slurry not go off in the same way/time as the current yeast in the FV?

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:05 pm

DaaB wrote:I'm only suggesting a few teaspoons.

Ah, ok DaaB. So, you think if I transfered it to a keg with a couple of teaspoons of slurry for say, ten days, then over to another keg to condition would be a good idea?

Post by **Aleman** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:17 pm

The yeast is pooped, it didn't mop up the diacetyl during fermentation it's unlikely do do so now . . . The reason why krausening works is because its done with active fresh yeast.

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:14 am

Yeah, it's been in for 11 days now so I guess if it's not cleared up by now it aint gonna. So, i've decided to pop into a keg anyway as it's that or bin it and I realy don't want to bin my first AG

.

Onto my next one. This time i'm gonna get industrial on the aeration bit

Spoon + drill = no diacetyl.

evilsoc · Post by **evilsoc** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:46 am

Are you 100% sure you still have diacetyl in there? after 11 days? It doesnt look that badly aerated.

delboy · Post by **delboy** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:19 am

stevezx7r wrote:Yeah, it's been in for 11 days now so I guess if it's not cleared up by now it aint gonna. So, i've decided to pop into a keg anyway as it's that or bin it and I realy don't want to bin my first AG .

Onto my next one. This time i'm gonna get industrial on the aeration bit

Spoon + drill = no diacetyl.

Just how bad is the diacetyl, are you sure you aren't just confusing the taste with green beer?

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:10 pm

delboy wrote:
stevezx7r wrote:Yeah, it's been in for 11 days now so I guess if it's not cleared up by now it aint gonna. So, i've decided to pop into a keg anyway as it's that or bin it and I realy don't want to bin my first AG .

Onto my next one. This time i'm gonna get industrial on the aeration bit

Spoon + drill = no diacetyl.
Just how bad is the diacetyl, are you sure you aren't just confusing the taste with green beer?

Actually, the diacetyl seems to have cleared up quite a bit now - almost unnoticable. It was definatley diacetyl - a butterscotch taste/smell with a sort of soapy taste. Felt like it was coating my teeth.

I've just tried some and the beer seems to have quite a bit of yeast deposits floating around. Maybe that was due to a poor cold break? It is also tasting quite bitter but I think that should die off a bit once conditioned.

I'm gonna pop down town to pick up some glucose to prime the keg - unless t+l will do?

I also got some roast barley yesturday so looking to do a slightly darker version of my first AG recipe

evilsoc · Post by **evilsoc** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:22 pm

Excellent. Sounds like its time for the hardest part, putting it away for a month.

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:00 pm

Right, i've kegged it minus any priming sugar as I wanted to get as clear a beer as possible and in the slim hope of loosing any remaining diacetyl. It's going to be for a party in a months time (depending on the weather) and the crowd there won't take to kindly to funny tasting, cloudy beer.

So I was thinking three days in this keg, try it and if it's still cloudy leave for another couple of days and regardless of its condition it will be primed and kegged 'till the 12th April.

Fingers and toes crossed.

Right, time to prepare for the next one.

Soup · Post by **Soup** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:08 pm

Why not raise the temp for a couple days and rouse the yeast with a quick shake of the barboy? let it go a couple days and then transfer.

stevezx7r · Post by **stevezx7r** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:43 pm

A moot point now as it's already in the keg. I've just tried it and it's aroma is still butterscotch though not as pronounced. The taste has all but cleard up now - the taste of alcohol is coming through first followed by the malt and hops and then diacetyl.

I think I'll transfer it to another keg to condition, overprime slightly and add some strong aroma hops.

jonnyv · Post by **jonnyv** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:25 pm

stevezx7r wrote:It was definatley diacetyl - a butterscotch taste/smell with a sort of soapy taste. Felt like it was coating my teeth.

My first AG (London Pride clone) has masses amounts of diacetyl in it - very buttery taste (I know LP has a bit). This was probably because I kegged too early.

Interesting comment about coating the teeth - this is exactly how my LP feels after a few mouthfulls. I'll be sure to leave it a few days longer on my next brew.

It's not unpleasant but it's definitely noticeable and somewhat masks the flavours of the malt/hops.

Steve - how did the lager turn out in the end? (If you can remember?

)

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Getting rid of Diacetyl

Getting rid of Diacetyl