Lowering Efficiency = "Better Beer" ?

[Wez]

This is something that I have seen mentioned a few times, and i'm after a bit of clarification, the way I understand it is .... you can get a high efficiency but maybe end up extracting "too much" from the grain whereas if you aim for a lower efficiency and stop sparging early in effect, while there is still wort that you would normally collect in the tun BUT the wort that you have collected will be "better" wort.

So is this actually the case, will deliberately lowering efficiency produce a better wort/beer?

I'm about to weigh out for a brew tomorrow and just wondered if I should calculate based on a 65% efficiency rather than my normal 75% to see what happens...?

Whaddaya think?

[MightyMouth]

Worth a try but I think unless you are entering a competition and as long as you aren't extracting too many tannins that you should try for the highest efficiency as possible.

[Wez]

I know what you're saying but malt is cheap so I don't mind throwing a few extra 100g's in if it means a better quality - just not sure it will?

Also, I normally end up with ~20L in the FV and have to top up with 5L cooled boiled water - do most folk do that?

[MightyMouth]

I know what you're saying but malt is cheap so I don't mind throwing a few extra 100g's in if it means a better quality - just not sure it will?

Also, I normally end up with ~20L in the FV and have to top up with 5L cooled boiled water - do most folk do that?

You will only know for sure if you try.

I don't know about most folk and as I have only done one AG so far I am clearly no an authority but that's what I did.

[spearmint-wino]

I normally end up topping up with a bit of water - in the past it has been anywhere between 1 and 4 litres. I don't usually use boiled though, just tap

I've had conversations with much more experienced brewers who say that hitting your gravity and not topping up at all leads to a big improvement in their beer so your lower gravity experiment might be well worth a try

[AT]

I never top up but that's batch sparging for ya, it's hard go wrong

[stevezx7r]

I usually top up with leftover sparge water, it's pre boiled and still hot (I usually add it around 15 mins before heat off) so it doesn't take long for the boiler to get back to full boil.

I'm going to give batch sparging a go as I've no idea what my efficiency is so I guess batch sparging would make it easier to work out "on the fly" as it were.

Re. better quality wort from less efficiency, I suppose up to a point the wort will be around the same quality as long as you don't over do it.

[prolix]

I am with you on this one wez, I do a single sparge now and sod the expense (my mash tun is big enough) the beers I have gotten have been quite lovely much better than the chase the efficency beers I was brewing I love malty tastes and these deliver in spades. Saves poxying around taking reading too and time.

[Aleman]

I'd say try it Wez and see if you like the beer that results. The Schwarzbier you have is the result of a no sparge brew, I hit about 65% efficiency on that one . . . and the crafty samples I had to have when racking my CAP were incredibly good when I got a whopping 24% efficiency

[Wez]

I've decided to up the grain bill by calculating a 65% efficiency (beersmith), going to use my normal method which is sparge to collect 25L boil, cool, travsfer to FV and top up to 25L

Or is there any other hints that I could try?

[Aleman]

If you have a big enough mash tun calculate for 50% efficiency, mash in using 3.3L per Kilo, at the end of the mash, drain off the liquor don't sparge, measure the gravity and dilute it down to the required preboil gravity. boil with hops and proceed as normal.

[Wez]

Aleman, thats something to try, the tun i'm using tomorrow only hold 7kg at 2.5L per kilo max

I do have a bigger tun (thanks Steve Flack) so i'll have to try that

[AT]

If you have a big enough mash tun calculate for 50% efficiency, mash in using 3.3L per Kilo, at the end of the mash, drain off the liquor don't sparge, measure the gravity and dilute it down to the required preboil gravity. boil with hops and proceed as normal.

I can't understand why it's better to add water instead of wort to dilute? forgive my ignorance but shouldn't we top up during the boil with wort instead of wasting it and using water?

[Aleman]

The whole point of being deliberately inefficient is to extract the best possible quality of wort, by not sparging you run no risk of excessive lipid or tannin/polyphenol extraction., SO by using loads of grain and a slightly higher liquor to grist ratio, and then diluting the first wort with water, we get the best quality.

The beers I've brewed using no sparge brewing have always surprised me by just how malty and full bodied they are compared to similar beers that I've sparged. Its a technique I'm thinking of trying with the Durden park beers I have planned for tis year.

[AT]

Ok but to my stupid brain it makes no sense to dilute with water when you can do with wort? i must try myself sometime cause it's the only way i'll learn. Thanks Aleman