Boilover

[agentgonzo]

A combination of lack of paying attention and a lovely steak yesterday resulted in a bit of boil over from the kettle. Apart from the mess of clearing it up, how will the loss of a lot of of hot-break material affect the beer? Not really worried about it - just interested to know.

[MightyMouth]

I would think you want to lose as much break material as possible so I would say it would effect it positively if anything as long as you didn't lose any hops with it.

[agentgonzo]

I would think you want to lose as much break material as possible so I would say it would effect it positively if anything as long as you didn't lose any hops with it.

Why do you say this? Is it common to skim the hot-break material off? Normally I just let it naturally fall back into the boiling wort.

[MightyMouth]

No, Skimming break material off is not something I have ever heard anyone do during the boil, its just that I thought the point of the boil was to cause the proteins to coagulate into break material so that they fall out of suspention.

Based on that I assumed that you want to lose the break material anyway so if some biols over I would have thought that would mean less would go into the FV which would equal less trub and potentially clearer beer.

If DaaB says something different listen to him as I am just going on horse sense which frequently turns out to be Horse S#|+ instead.

Edit: I have just had a search in the interwebs and apparently some people do skim the hot break so clearly you should still get a drinkable beer.

[Scooby]

As far as I know the 'hot break' does not happen in the first few minutes of the boil.

It's a while into the boil before the protein matter coagulates and forms clumps, so I wouldn't worry about it myself

BTW I doubt there are many of us who haven't experienced a boil over and the subsequent clear up

Edit: Just seen reference to skimming hot break. I not sure what they are removing but I don't reckon it's coagulated protein

[Scooby]

Regarding terminology i'm not sure of the exact definitions but it is convenient to refer to the foam as the hot break and the coagulation of the proteins as securing the hot break, ie the reach a point where they can no longer go back into suspension.

It's right to say the foam contains small particles of protein and most people call that the hot break. It is only when they combine into larger lumps and are no longer soluble that the hot break is secured.

My point was that in a boil over situation only a small proportion of the protein matter will be lost, the same small amount will be removed if you skim, there will be many protein particles still in suspension that will coagulate through the boil.

[Aleman]

As I understand it, the foam is protein matter coagulating and it dissipates once the particles have coagulated to the point where they sink back into the wort.

They then continue to coagulate to the point where they can no longer dissolve back in which as you say is when the hot break is secure.

The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein

ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!:twisted:

Bl**dy Palmer!!!!!, causing all this confusion, the hot break happens late in the boil (certainly later than 20 minutes!) and can be seen in a sample as match head sized loose 'flocs' of proteinaceous materiel floating around in the convection currents.

The foam at the begining of the boil is just that foam, its not the 'hot break'. . . . Ok so its protein foam, but its not hot break yet, it needs cooking first. After all when you make a cake its called mixture before you cook it, and cake when it comes out of the oven.

[stevezx7r]

Thanks for that Aleman, clears that up for me. I always thought that when the boil "rises" up and out of the boiler (if you let it), that was the hot break. Good to know.

[anomalous_result]

I'm going to call it the Pre-Hot Break Break. Or proto-break. The rolling boil you get reminds me of my jam, here's some marmalade:

[prolix]

Has anyone coined a phrase for the initial eruption of proteins, if not they need to

Now there's an idea for a thread!

If I was being Zenist about it I would call it "Shit, shit shit, shit!" as that is what is drawn unconsously from within on Shit, shit shit, shit's appearance.

[prolix]

Surely creaming would be more appropriate

[Vossy1]

Oh dear

[Vossy1]

Oh double dear

[Scooby]

Come come now

[agentgonzo]

the hot break happens late in the boil (certainly later than 20 minutes!) and can be seen in a sample as match head sized loose 'flocs' of proteinaceous material floating around in the convection currents.

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! I'd never really looked to see if I could see these 'flocs' as it'd masked by matter from the whole/leaf hops. I'd noticed small bits floating around (look like coriander seeds, but about half the diameter) and assumed that they were hop seeds or something like that. Now that I think about it, the hops don't have small seeds in them and that's the hot break stuff that I'd read about.

Understanding a little bit more about brewing every day...