The hot break - getting good one!

HantsGaz · Post by **HantsGaz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:32 pm

How important is this? Reading various articles I'm lead to believe that just after the boil has started a fairly vigorous hot break should be observed. I've done this once now (after a mini mash) - and didn't observe anything vigorous, well not that noticable anyway. Just wondering if this would affect the end quality of the wort?

Thanks, Gaz.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:38 pm

I'm sure to get shot down in flames, but I think the hot break is a bit of an urban myth. Not the actual process but, being able to visibly identify it.

There's plenty of photos on here that show a load of scum/froth but, to my mind, that's not the hot break. That's just starch, like you get when you boil potatoes. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just boil hard and you'll be fine. You should be able to see the cold break material once you're all done though.

HantsGaz · Post by **HantsGaz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:48 pm

Well, Buzz - I hope everyone is in agreement, as that will make me feel a lot better!

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:56 pm

I have a feeling the general consensus will be against me I'm afraid.

But, when I first started brewing this miraculous 'hot break' term really worried me. I watched the boiler avidly for signs but, like you, there was nothing that stood out among the sea of hops and steam. I thought I must have failed in the dark art of AG brewing. Don't let it stress you, like it stressed me. The beer was fine and as long as you get a good rolling boil and boil for at least an hour, things will turn out dandy.

Whorst · Post by **Whorst** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:09 pm

Hot break is not a myth, as I witness it every time I brew.
Here's all the info you need:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-2.html

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:18 pm

What Buzz has said is my understanding too.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:19 pm

Whorst wrote:Hot break is not a myth, as I witness it every time I brew.
Here's all the info you need:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter7-2.html

Thanks Whorst. I didn't doubt that it occurred, just that it was hard to see. I do get the foaming - but I also get that when I boil potatoes, and that's starch. But, if that is what's meant by the hot break then I stand corrected.

steve_flack · Post by **steve_flack** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:24 pm

It's more obvious if you make up a starter in a glass flask with spraymalt. You get thick lumps of protein coagulating just after the boil starts.

Post by **Aleman** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:44 pm

Buzz is partially correct, the scum and foam you get just as the wort starts to boil is not the hot break . . . its not starch either

it is the protein molecules denaturing.

If you want to see the real hot break, take a sample of the wort every 15 minutes throughout the boil (keep them for comparison), The first will be cloudy . . . then as the boil progresses you will see small particles appear . . . as it continues these particles will get bigger and bigger, eventually reaching match head sized loose 'fluffy' lumps. . . . and the wort becomes 'bright'. This is the hot break, the point in time that the medium weight amino acid chains have coagulated leaving the wort in a bright (and somewhat stable state).

If you were to follow Dave Lines Advice of "Boil to secure the hot break, then cool, and pitch the yeast" the wort would, according to Palmer, have had a minimal boil and there would have been no time to add hops

The best time to see the hot break is just after flame out, as the boil action stops breaking up the protein matter.

Whether or not you get a good break is determined by several factors, one of them being Calcium levels, another being effective copper finings. If I do not supplement my boil with Calcium I have to boil for a significantly longer time to get a break, and it is somewhat half-hearted at that.

HantsGaz · Post by **HantsGaz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:52 pm

Good posts guys, thanks. So then - if the hot break does not occur, what is the effect on the end product of the wort? Does it not ferment well? Does is not taste good... Or does it always aoccur if you boil for an hour, just that it might not be observed?

I too have seen much better/vigorous hot breaks when boiling DME for a starter.

Thanks.

maxashton · Post by **maxashton** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:04 pm

It always occurs if you boil. The result of it not happening is cloudy beer.

Post by **Aleman** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:07 pm

Generally the classic symptom of a poor hot break would be hazy beer, also the long term flavour stability of the beer would be detrimentally affected.

HantsGaz · Post by **HantsGaz** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:54 pm

Great - got it, thanks. I've brewed a stout, so haziness shouldn't be too much of a problem...

pantsmachine · Post by **pantsmachine** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:16 pm

During 1st 10 minutes or so of boil i skim off the scum/foam that rises to the top every minute or so with a stainless seive and leave it at that.

clogwog · Post by **clogwog** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:33 pm

pantsmachine wrote:During 1st 10 minutes or so of boil i skim off the scum/foam that rises to the top every minute or so with a stainless seive and leave it at that.

That's exactly what I do.
I don't add my hops until I've done that, and then start my timing for the boil.

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The hot break - getting good one!

The hot break - getting good one!