Dubbel Trubbel

[smp465]

Having just come back from Belgium, i am now keen to try some Belgian style brews. To kick off i would like to tackle a Dubbel for Xmas. I have absolutely no experience of the ingredients required here, so any advice would be greatly received.

I have looked at the BJCP guidelines and messed about with Beersmith as follows:
25l
6kg Pils Malt
0.2kg Caravienna
0.2kg Caramunich
0.2kg Special B
Fuggles for 60 mins ~18IBU
Styrians at 15 mins ~3-4IBU
Candy Sugar? (I have assumed so as i want that brown sugar taste in there)

Some of the best i tried while in Belgium were "Duvel Moortgat - Maredsous 8", "Westmalle Dubbel Trappist" and i want to achieve as many of the fruity, raisiny/plum, malty, peppery, caramel flavours as possible.

Would you tend to use both Caravienna and Caramunich in this style, or would it normally be one or the other?

Any help gratefully received.

By the way, I will use the Westmalle yeast (WLP530 i believe) unless anyone has a better suggestion?

[mysterio]

Funny you should post this, i'm also planning a dubbel as my next brew, also with the Westmalle yeast. I think it will be ready just in time for christmas.

The amount of crystal malts looks about right, I personally think it's fiddling around the edges using both CaraMunich & CaraVienne, although there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. You might want to include a portion of Aromatic malt, and perhaps a little Carafa if you want the darker colour.

Hops look fine too.

Sugar, you can just use plain cane sugar, or use candi sugar if you like, but I don't think theres any flavour difference when we're talking about the light stuff. Go for about 10% when you calculate it in Beersmith. I've never used the dark candi sugar but that would probably be a smart choice.

I'm using the dark candi syrup from Belgium, however this is pretty difficult to get, you'd probably have to order it in from somewhere.

Alot of the flavour will obviously come from the yeast, remember to make a good sized starter, aerate the wort very well, and pitch the yeast at 18C allowing the temperature to rise naturally throughout the course of fermentation. I think theres an argument for using some yeast nutrient in the starter too for such a big beer.

[smp465]

Cheers Mysterio. I wanted some dark candy sugar in there, but it soon takes you outside of the style guidelines as it is so dark. Maybe i'll use all CaraVienna instaed of the munich split to claw some colour units back. All these new choices, very exciting!

One other thing, would you step mash this or just do a single infusion? I think i have read other comments saying it is not really necessary to do it just because of the pilsner malt (or are you just planning to use pale)?

[mysterio]

I'm using UK lager malt in conjunction with some Munich malt to up the maltiness. Personally, I think theres an argument for using the proper German pils malt in pale beers like pilsners for the most authentic results, but there's no point in dark beers like this.

Step mash, it's certainly not necessary but it's worth noting that virtually every brewery in Belgium still practices a step mash. It might help with a little extra clarity (not as important in a dark beer), and possibly head retention/mouthfeel if held for brief enough time, say 10-15 minutes. Much longer than that and it can be detrimental to both body and head retention so it's a balancing act. I probably won't bother, head retention on a big beer like this should be fine as it is, but it's an extra variable to tweak if you brew it again. Probably do a single infusion quite low to get good attenuation

[Barley Water]

My advice to you is don't spend any time worrying about the style guidelines, just do what makes sense to you in terms of the flavors you are looking for. I would say that unless you like really heavy sweet beers, you probably want to put some type of sugar in there just to increase the "drinkability". In my opinion, the Belgian candy sugar (I am talking about the really dark liquid stuff, not the crystal rocks which are a waste of money) is pretty good stuff although expensive. It adds those rummy, raisin tastes which devotees of the style really love. You can make your own dark sugar if you can not find any commercially.

I am currently waiting for my last batch to fully cabonate (maybe another week at room temperature). I went a little wild and threw in a couple of jars of date syrup as well as some carmelized raisens plus about 1/2 a bottle of the dark Belgian sugar. I ended up with a pretty dark beer with an O.G. of 1.080 and I know the stuff is pretty high octane but there don't seem to be any hot or solventy flavors so thats ok. I used WLP500 and started at 64F letting the temperature rise to about 75F over a week or so. It will be interesting to see what I end up with, hopefully not too much clove and bananna but I know this strain will throw off at least some of both those flavors. Next weekend, I will try my first bottle and see how it came out, I can't wait!

[mysterio]

BW, I took your lead and ordered some champagne bottles along with corks & cages... you're a bad influence

[smp465]

OK great, i definitely take your point about the guidelines restricting the beer i might want to brew....it had occurred to me not to get hung up on it! Thanks too for the sugar and mash advice.

With the yeast, what volume of starter do you use?

[mysterio]

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I'm going to build a 1L starter, split it in two & keep it in the fridge so I have some yeast for two different beers.

Then probably build a 3L starter on a home made stir plate for my 10 gallon batch.

You should be alright with a 2L starter on your batch, give the starter a good swirl every so often if you can and dont let it get too cold.

[Barley Water]

I want to say I did a one liter starter for the dubbel with a stir plate if I remember correctly. I have never really had problems with ales at this level but upon reflection, to the extent that sized starter results in under pitching, it may be effecting the taste of the beer (although not necessarily in a bad way). Once I taste this stuff next week, if the beer has more esters and phenols than I want, I will consider making a bigger starter next time. Of course the other way to adjust that would be to lower the fermentation temperature. Making these Belgian styles is very much a balancing act which seems very similar to making weizen, O.G., fermentation temperature and pitching rate along with yeast strain selecton playing a big role in flavor development. I also read someplace the fermenter geometry also makes a difference but I can't adjust that easily as I use glass carboys.

As far as being a bad influence, unfortunately, I have heard that before. Make sure you have a good floor corker, it will make your life a lot easier (although as usual, it will be expensive). I have the Italian model which works great on Belgian bottles and with regular wine corks. I understand they also make one that will specifically handle champagne bottles with standard champaign corks which mine will not (it tears the hell out of the corks, I have tried it). Since the difference in price is not all that much, you might as well get high end one, it will cost you around $150 or so.

[mysterio]

Sadly all that is a bit out of my price range. I went for plastic champagne 'corks'. I understand you can just tap these in.

[Barley Water]

Yes, that is my understanding also. Of course you can also crown cap champaign bottles, I do it all the time. Another option is to drive #7 (and possibly #8) regular wine corks into the champaign bottles and then cap them if you want to avoid screwing around with cages. You might be able to get away with a hand corker for this which should be a hell of a lot cheaper. The reason I got into all this in the first place was because I was trying get a little "cork" action going in my Saison just to make it taste a little more rustic. I then noticed that those Belgian bottles looked really cool so I then wanted to mess with those also. My wife says that every time I get into something like this, I end up going overboard and you know what, she is correct.

[mysterio]

Hmmmm don't you need a special capper for the oversized champagne crown caps though? Already dropped a small fortune on brewing ingredients/equipment for the coming months... i've got 50 kilos of malt sitting next to me...

I'm sure i've seen some link of some guys doing the whole champagne method with beer, i.e. crown capping the bottles, bottle conditioning, inverting them, freezing it all, uncapping them and sliding out the frozen yeast layer, then corking the bottles so that they're sediment free. That's your next step BW

Edit: Here it is http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/methode_champenoise/

[Barley Water]

Oh no, I like the yeast sediment. I used to think that the sediment was a bad thing, somehow unprofessional but now that I am a hopeless beer nerd, I think it is a mark of a truly artesianal product. I just love all the little rituals that go along with opening those corked bottles and decanting the precious liquid off the sediment, it kind of reminds me of a small pagan religous rite, very cool and maybe just a little bit snobby (that's why we drink this stuff out of a chalice you know). I like to think that what we do is a little above the "Joe Six-Pack", you know, pop the top, chug the beer, throw the can away and burp. Of course I may be just kidding myself but it makes me feel better.

[smp465]

Are these 75cl bottles? Wouldn't be able to drink too many of those!

[pantsmachine]

Oh no, I like the yeast sediment. I used to think that the sediment was a bad thing, somehow unprofessional but now that I am a hopeless beer nerd, I think it is a mark of a truly artesianal product. I just love all the little rituals that go along with opening those corked bottles and decanting the precious liquid off the sediment, it kind of reminds me of a small pagan religous rite, very cool and maybe just a little bit snobby (that's why we drink this stuff out of a chalice you know). I like to think that what we do is a little above the "Joe Six-Pack", you know, pop the top, chug the beer, throw the can away and burp. Of course I may be just kidding myself but it makes me feel better.

On my search for a belgian recipe i came across this thread. You my man have to get on a flight to Europe. Go immerse yourself in Belguim,Germany,Holland. All make good beer and will love your style and passion. I agree about the Chalices and the Tulips. After using them for a week or so i realised that they are conical so any sediment that gets in settles nicely to the smallest area. Ah those crazy Belgian they don't half plan a beer. Plus they look ace!