The Yorkshire Stone Square, The Burton Union...

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:54 am

...The frothy beer...!!!!????

Being a southerner... (yes I attend all the usual support groups)... I don't usually have much truck with some of the northern brewing systems that create the distinctinve consistency and mouth feel of Northern beers... (Don't mind the beer though)...

But I am interested to know if there is any way of duplicating the effect without building yourself one of the full-scale brewing systems traditionally used to produce them...

Post by **Jim** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:08 pm

Assuming you are just talking about cask ale, as far as I am aware, the difference happens at the point of serving the beer.

Frothy (typically northern) beers are served using a different nozzle size, which tends to force gas out of the beer to produce the head (the Guinness 'creamer' nozzle is an extreme example of this). In the south, where beer is preferred without a big head on it, the wider nozzle allows more gas to stay in the beer, so it has more gas dissolved in it, but less head.

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:54 pm

Ah... Now I've been told in the past that the creamier texture of Northern beers is also to do with the brewing systems used two of which I've mentioned, they I believe are kind of recycling systems that get the yeast further into the brew...

:huh: But I may be wrong

:blink: Could just be a beer dream

Post by **Jim** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 8:43 pm

Some hazy recollections of reading about on of these systems is coming back into my mind!

Is the Burton Union the system where they used to ferment in closed vessels with an airlock, and recycle the yeast and foam that came out of the airlock back into the brew via open channels? Don't recall ever reading about the Yorkshire Stone thingy.

As far as I know, no one brews with the Burton system any more; it's just not commercially viable (in fact it went out of use in the late 19th century, I think!). All modern commercial breweries (making English beer) use open fermentation tanks, either cylindrical (most common) or conical (a more recent innovation).

Post by **Jim** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:01 pm

A quick Google search proves me wrong! :rolleyes:

http://www.beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000132.html

...and a http://www.merchantduvin.com/pages/5_br ... shire.html link!

If there's an easier way to produce the same results, I'd like to know about it, but I have my doubts.

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:57 pm

Aha!!!

I thought I was right... but this does mean it's very hard to reproduce authentic results on these types of brews...

I gues the easiest way out of the two would be the square if you could keep the yeast aereated and infection free... Make a mini square or something...

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:07 am

Actually thinking it through a mini-square would be quite easy to set up, they've been made for years...! B)

The original Yorkshire squares were made from stone, so I'm sure an enamelled butler sink would be easy to sterilise and hold a sufficient volume to produce a decent brew. If the yeast involved is truly a top dweller, you might even be able to draw the finished brew through the plug hole!!! (Although simply siphoning the beer off might prove more practical...

)

The trick I guess would be in getting hold of the right yeast and finding a way to keep things areated...

What do you think Jim? A site project???!!!

Post by **Jim** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:42 pm

QUOTE (Reg @ Dec 25 2004, 11:07 PM) ....What do you think Jim?Ã‚Â A site project???!!!Ã‚Â

Great idea!

Let me know how you get on!

And welcome to your avatar as well!!!!

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:40 pm

QUOTE (jim @ Dec 27 2004, 04:42 PM) QUOTE (Reg @ Dec 25 2004, 11:07 PM) ....What do you think Jim?Ã‚Â A site project???!!!Ã‚Â

Great idea!

Let me know how you get on!

And welcome to your avatar as well!!!!

Bugger you don't expect me to actually do something do you? :huh:

I'm far too busy posting on all these forums...

Mutter, mumble, grumble... "Guess I'd better look into it then"

crow_flies · Post by **crow_flies** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:15 pm

I visited the black sheep brewery a year or so back. They have both yorkshire squares and 'round' squares.... same principlal but using round stainless steel vessels as they are easier to clean. Principle is that the yeast forces itself up through the hole in the centre and then over a lip. the yeast krausen gets trapped and the liquid runs back. Means only the most active yeast remains in the beer resulting in cleaner beer. Thats more or less as I remember the talk. They do have to rouse the beer using air. They said (and I'm recalling through an alcoholic haze here...) something like 3 mins of injected air every 3 hours for 3 days. It does create some butterscoth flavour in the beer, but its also part of the style so is fine....lovely drop of beer too!!

/CF

flytact · Post by **flytact** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:52 pm

Last months BYO magazine had a home made Burton Union. Didn't look too hard to recreate. My copy is packed away in storage until I move. Maybe someone else can dig it up.

Western Brewer · Post by **Western Brewer** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:18 pm

I have the BYO mag with the Burton Union system. If you want a copy of it let me know and perhaps I can send you a copy by snail mail.
There was also an article about building an open square fermenter if you're interested.
P.S. Has the happy day arrived yet Reg?

norman · Post by **norman** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:03 pm

The yorkshire squre was developed to deal with northern strains of yeast which separate from the beer, it consists of a double vessel separated by a manhole the yeast rises into the upper level,every few hours beer is pumped from thr lower vessel and sprayed through fishtail sprays back through the yeast carrying it back into the lower vessel where it continues fermentation,when the beer leaves the fishtails this is where it picks up the air. At the end of fermentation the manhole is closed leaving the yeast in the top vessel and relatively clear beer in the lower.It is because of these types of yeast that Yorkshire beers are malty.

Reg · Post by **Reg** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:33 pm

Western Brewer wrote:I have the BYO mag with the Burton Union system. If you want a copy of it let me know and perhaps I can send you a copy by snail mail.
There was also an article about building an open square fermenter if you're interested.
P.S. Has the happy day arrived yet Reg?

The happy day was 11 weeks ago! Ehem... So I've been a bit busy. Yes please, I would like a copy of the Burton Union article.

iowalad · Post by **iowalad** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:57 pm

Is Marston's Pedigree still made in a Burton Union system?

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The Yorkshire Stone Square, The Burton Union...

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