Guinness Foreign Export

[Jymbo]

My local Sainsburys and Tesco have stopped stocking this for some strange reason so it looks like I'll have to have a go at it myself. It's not exactly a session brew so I'll probably bottle it and sup away at it over time. Anyway, here's the recipe I plan to use - any criticism or advice will be gratefully accepted:

Brewlength: 19L
Efficiency: 70%
Target OG: 1073

Mash: 90 mins at 67C

Marris Otter: 4900g
Flaked Barley: 1500g
Roast Barley: 450g

Hops: 65 IBUs

Northdown (7.9%) (90 mins): 30g
EKGs (4.6%) (90 mins): 50g

Yeast: Safale-04

[Trough Lolly]

Wow, with 1.5kg of flaked barley you should be able to stand up a fork in it!! What sort of FG do you get - I'd guess you'd be in the mid to high .020's?

[Jymbo]

According to the recipe I used the FG is supposed to come out at 1020, however, the element on my boiler packed in half way through the boil so I ended up with 21.5 litres @ 1062. That'll reduce the bitterness too so I'm not sure what way it'll turn out. The wort tasted pretty bitter though, so hopefully I'll end up with something fairly drinkable. I reckon I've got a Bitterness/Gravity ratio of around 0.7 instead of the 0.9 I was aiming for. Also, I only got 67% efficiency which I suspect was down to batch sparging which tends to become less efficient as the gravity increases.

[Jymbo]

Thanks, Chris - my target OG was 1073. I'll be sure to fly sparge the next time I do a high gravity brew.

[Trough Lolly]

The dark grains in the mashtun will also impact on the extraction efficiency due to acidification. I'm drinking a dry stout now that was kegged about two months ago. The northdown hops are quite prominant and go well with the roasted malts. Next time, I'm gonna mash the base malt and steep the dark / roasted grains in a separate pot.

[Trough Lolly]

TL; One minute you are saying

There is no need to oversparge the bejaysus out of your mash if you're thinking it's smart to try to get 100% extraction efficiency - all your doing is adding astringency and haze to your brew.

the next you are trying to extract as much as you can by steeping the dark grains seperately. Make your mind up.

Hi Chris,
Take it easy tiger....all I'm doing by steeping the roasted / dark grains in a separate vessel is reducing the risk of over acidifying the main mash which in turn reduces extraction efficiency from the pale malts. Remember, the roasted / dark grains have had their enzymes denatured during the kilning process, so I just want to better manage the acid levels in the main mashtun which has a number of benefits, including extraction efficiency. And none of this has feck all to do with oversparging, which is what you quoted me on.

Cheers,
TL

[Trough Lolly]

Yeah, good point.
Our local water is very soft and the dark grains do have a tendancy to mess about with the pH and resultant extraction efficiency. I always seemed to struggle to get more than 65% extraction efficiency when I mashed stouts and have on occasions used a teaspoon or two of Calcium Carbonate in the mashtun to push the pH up. I'm now curious to see if I can dodge the chemicals by steeping the dark grains separately. There's an interesting article on mash pH, amongst the millions of similar articles on the net, here:

Increasing Mash pH
When brewing dark beers with fairly soft water, the acidity of the dark malts can result in a mash pH that is to low for proper enzymatic activity and eventually proper beer pH. In these cases it is necessary to increase the mash pH.

This mash pH increase can be accomplished by the addition of bicarbonate salts like sodium bicarbonate (baking soda, NaHCO3) or calcium carbonate (chalk, CaCO3). These salts increase the alkalinity of the water which consumes H+ ions and increases the mash pH. Large amounts of sodium are undesirable in brewing water which is why chalk is preferred over baking soda.

Source: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index. ... ng_Mash_pH

[Aleman]

Something else you might want to think about regarding steeping of the Dark grain is that you can reduce the roastiness extracted by doing a long (overnight) cold steep, but you have to use 3 times the amount of the dark grain specified in the recipe . . . I got this tip from Mary-Ann Gruber of Breiss (No she does not have a 'little tank' )

[Trough Lolly]

Thanks Aleman for the good tip. Due to circumstances beyond my control, I once did an overnight mash and didn't find it all that much different from a standard mash but I've never cold steeped or steeped overnight. When steeping, I used to add the grains to cold water, slowly heat to around 70C and then sparge.

I'll give this a go soon - I've just pitched some dry yeast onto my Hobgolbin ale that I brewed last night and may repitch another red ale or stout onto the slurry...

Cheers,
TL

[Aleman]

Cold steeping is just for dark roast grain.

If a recipe calls for 500g of Say Roast Barley, then you steep 1500g in cold water for 12-16 hours. Then you strain off the liquor and add the liquor to the boiler during the sparge. Its a very useful method to reduce the roast character in a stout/dark beer if you don't have access to dehusked Roast Malt

[Trough Lolly]

Yep, that's exactly what I'm after - for some reason it's bloody hard finding black / patent malt around here. Carafa and roasted barley are no probs but sometimes I want to darken the beer and not roast it up, eg my Pikantus recipe.

Cheers,
TL

[oblivious]

Cold steep would be good for obtaining color but don't you want a good roastness in a Guinness Foreign Export?

Although could be a good Idea for a more topical Foreign stout like dragon or Lion Stout