Water Treatment - DLS etc.

[Kristoff]

I'm finally getting me head around water treatment, I got the holy grail of CACO3 figure - 68ppm
so now i'm working out what I need.

For a bitter recipe Graham's water treatment table is suggesting:
Salt Additions Required
Total Calcium Sulphate (as gypsum): 11.96 grams
Total Calcium Chloride (dihydrate): 4.65 grams
Total Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom salts): 3.35 grams
Total Sodium Chloride (common salt): 2.65 grams

Now, my qestions are:
1. Would DLS, cover all these additions?
2. Should I instead, get separate salts, (i've already got Gypsum and table salt)?
3. So i'd just need Epsom Salts, can these be bought from a chemist?
and some Calcium Chloride Flakes, i'll get these from HBS

Also, I can't get a Magnesium figure for my water.
4. Am I right in assuming that, the Magnesuim fig is usually worked into the calcium figure and is not normally an amount worth recording.?
5. If so, do I leave the Magnesium field blank in the water treatment calc?

I've got some Alkaline testing strips, as per Chris's suggestion (thanks)
So, hopefully, once i've got all my info, I can be completely treated
Thanks in advance

[jubby]

I am no expert but I have been through this process myself and although I can't answer all of your questions, I can give you what little info i have.

Firstly, make sure that your CaCo3 figure is alkalinity and not hardness. If it's wrong, there is a real risk of buggering up your water treatment.

Secondly, you should be able to get your magnesium levels from your water authority. I just sent an email requesting all the parameters in mg/l.

DLS contains this stuff: CALCIUM CHLORIDE, CALCIUM SULPHATE, MAGNESIUM SULPHATE, SODIUM CHLORIDE. I was unable to get any information about the levels of each, so I don't use it as I would be adding unknown quantities. I use seperate salts so that I can keep control.

Yes, Epsom Salts from the chemist and Calcium Chloride Flakes from a home brew shop.

[Kristoff]

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciated it

Firstly, make sure that your CaCo3 figure is alkalinity and not hardness. If it's wrong, there is a real risk of buggering up your water treatment.

Thanks Jubby, i'm glad you pointed this out, as I think, it's the hardness they're on about, have a look here....

http://www2.wessexwater.co.uk/water-and ... =ta3%206nj

It's where I got my CaCo3 fig 68ppm from - I don't think it's the total alkalinity figure is it? I've now emailed Wessex Water, and await their reply

So in short you water treatment (after dechlorination) can be as simple as adding the appropriate amount of CRS, adding a tsp of gypsum to the mash and adding a heaped tsp of gypsum to the boiler.

Thanks Chris for your excellent information (as usual), I do suspect that I have soft water (we never need to descale our kettle) and therefore will need to add quite a lot of calcium. So i'll adopt your suggestions until i've got the definative figure.
In the long term you see, I wanted to be able to adjust my water treatment, using grahams calc, as i'll be doing some Stouts and Porters. So i'll need to know my CaCo3 figure
BTW - have you got any of your test kits left

[Kristoff]

Got a really quick reply from Wessex Water, this it what they said...

Dear Kris
Thank you for your email of 23 February about the quality of your mains water supply.
Unfortunately it is not a regulatory requirement to test the alkalinity of the water supply. However, attached is a copy of the schedule 4 zone report for your area, which shows typical values of substances we test for in the water supply in your area.

That's a lot of use isn't it.....

Anyway, is there a way you can sort of work backwards to work out the total alkalinity, as I seem to have every figure apart from that one.

For instance, I know...
Total hardness values expressed in carrying units
Calcium mg/l 27
Calcium carbonate mg/l 68
and
Magnesium 2.57mg/l
Sodium mg/l 8.4
Sulphate mg/l 11
Chloride mg/l 0.3

I've ploughed through the forum and guessing what i've seen from other peoples water reports, and based on what the above figures say, I'd make a rough guess that my total alkalinity would be around 55 - at least it's a starting point.
Either way, it's fairly certain i've got soft water, so I certainly need to do some additions. I'll go with waht Chris suggested and find out over my next few brews what's going on.

Thanks again for your help

[Graham]

If you can rely on the figure being accurate, your calcium carbonate is your total alkalinity, but expressed as calcium carbonate.
Expressed as calcium carbonate (CaCO3) it is 68 mg/l
Expressed as carbonate (CO3) it is 41 mg/l
Expressed as bicarbonate (HCO3) it is 83 mg/l

[boingy]

Well, a big Yah-Boo Sucks to Wessex Water.

Anglia Water serve my area and were mega-helpful when I asked them the same question. They even emailed me a spreadsheet containing 2 years worth of weekly readings so I could see the variations. I was impressed because it is also not a regulatory parameter for them so they could quite easily have just said "sod off".

[jubby]

Thanks Jubby, i'm glad you pointed this out, as I think, it's the hardness they're on about, have a look here....

http://www2.wessexwater.co.uk/water-and ... =ta3%206nj

I think you are right, it's hardness. There are threads on the subject of alkalinity testing kits but I can't find one right now. I have a kit put together by Daab (chris). If you are in any doubt about your alkalinity and you can't test it, I can test it for you if you mail me 300ml of your water. Pm me if you like.

[Kristoff]

If you can rely on the figure being accurate, your calcium carbonate is your total alkalinity, but expressed as calcium carbonate.
Expressed as calcium carbonate (CaCO3) it is 68 mg/l
Expressed as carbonate (CO3) it is 41 mg/l
Expressed as bicarbonate (HCO3) it is 83 mg/l

Cheers Graham, I was confusing myself, with all this new information
Right, i've now got somewhere to start, we'll soon see if the Wessex water figures are accurate when I do my next mash. Going to digest all of what Chris said and then tackle your water treatment page next. Thanks guys

[Graham]

Cheers Graham, I was confusing myself, with all this new information
Right, i've now got somewhere to start, we'll soon see if the Wessex water figures are accurate when I do my next mash. Going to digest all of what Chris said and then tackle your water treatment page next. Thanks guys

I would check the figures and the descriptions given by your water co just the same. I am not entirely happy with the figure I gave. The figures as given do not balance up (not unusual). I assumed that they had given you alkalinity as CaCO3, but that might not be the case.

When working backwards from the other five figures given, your original estimate is closer than mine. By working the figures out backwards, carbonate turns out to be 50 mg/l, not that much different to your own estimate. It is probably more reliable than the figure I gave before.

Although your alkalinity might be a bit high for comfort (you could do with halving it), you have not got a busting lot and you will probably get away without alkalinity reduction. You'll need to add some calcium though.

[Kristoff]

Well, a big Yah-Boo Sucks to Wessex Water

Too right

I can test it for you if you mail me 300ml of your water

Sorry Jubby, I missed your post, when I last replied i logged off straight away.
Thanks for the offer, that would be great - i'll PM you
Thanks again Graham and Chris

[Kristoff]

Re-reading your post i've just realised you have the alkalinity test kit I suggested buying so you can test the alkalinity of your own water (don't forget to use the table to convert it from meq to mg/l).

Hi Chris, yes, although I didn't realise it was for testing the alklinity, I was going to us it for testing the PH of my mash
also, tell me where the table is for converting from meq to mg/l?

[Kristoff]

I'm afraid I don't know that, I have never used those particular kits. I was led to believe they are supplied with the kit.

Sorry Chris, yes they are
Anyway, tested the water, and i've got alkalinity of around 40mg/l.
Thanks for the help everyone