Evaporated nasties during the boil

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eskimobob

Evaporated nasties during the boil

Post by eskimobob » Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:18 pm

Here's a question:

It's commonly accepted that it is best to brew with the boiler lid off (or at least with some method that extracts the steam). The reason for this is that some nasty things that we don't want in our brew are driven off during the boil. Presumably with the lid on, these condensate and then drip back into the boiler.

My question is, when is the critical time where these are produced - i.e. where do these nasties come from. My understanding is that they are obtained from the hops - is this right?

If they do come from the hops then presumably it is ok to have the boiler lid on loosely until the stage where the hops go in. For example, today I boiled for 30 minutes before adding the hops so presumably I could have had the lid on for the first 30 minutes?

My reason for being interested is that now the weather is colder, my 1.8kW Brupaks boiler struggles to maintain a vigorous boil. If I put the loose fitting lid on though it boils away madly even outside. Ideally I either need an additional element to kick it up a bit and maintain the vigorous boil with the lid off or else I need to insulate the outside of the boiler (perhaps both).

Any thoughts :-k

eskimobob

Post by eskimobob » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:02 pm

Thanks DaaB, that was what I was thinking. In future I will put the lid on until the point where I add the hops and then leave it off. I better also look at some kind of insulation though as well...

steve_flack

Re: Evaporated nasties during the boil

Post by steve_flack » Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:43 pm

eskimobob wrote: My question is, when is the critical time where these are produced - i.e. where do these nasties come from. My understanding is that they are obtained from the hops - is this right?
Some also come from the malt. This is not such a problem with UK pale malt but continental lager malts contain fairly high levels of precursors of a chemical called dimethylsufide which stinks like rotting cabbage. This is created all the time the wort is held at an elevated temperature but during boiling it's driven off as it's volatile. This, incidently, is one reason rapid cooling of the wort is important after the boil - if the wort is hot but not boiling DMS is created but not driven off. This ends up in the beer - not usually a desirable feature in a lager...

RabMaxwell

Post by RabMaxwell » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:44 pm

What's the view on having the lid on but open enough to let steam out.That's what i do as i don't get a vigorous enough boil otherwise. cheers

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Post by Horden Hillbilly » Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:59 pm

I always leave my lid on for most of the boil but only snap one side of it down & leave the open side next to the open kitchen window to vent the steam off. As our kitchen is on the small side if I left the lid off it would be like a pea souper of a fog in there in no time, I know because I tried it once & had to put the lid on after about 15 mins!

I am aware that droplets form on the lid, therefore every 15 mins or so I remove the lid using thick oven gloves, the droplets obviously go into the brew, therefore when I remove the lid I leave it off for about 5 mins or so & for the last 10 mins of the boil.

A bit of a chore, but it seems to do the trick, any comments on this method, good or bad will be apreciated or if anyone else has another method could you please let me know, thanks.

RabMaxwell

Post by RabMaxwell » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:16 pm

Might be something to do with very soft scottish water Daab. The only time i suffer from harsh bitter taste's is when i have used gypsum to try and make more english style beers.I then give up and go back to making great beer without water treatment.Most brewery visits i have been to with SCB have had boilers totally enclosed with a hatch on the top for hop additions and there beers were great. Cheers

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Post by Andy » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:22 pm

Horden - you could make a lid with ducting built in to it which you could feed out of the window....

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 7&ts=92135
Dan!

DJP

Post by DJP » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:16 pm

If "Nasties" come from the hops, then what effect do the late hops contribute, given that they're presumably not boiled long enough to drive off said "Nasties"?

Frothy

Post by Frothy » Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:22 pm

RabMaxwell wrote:What's the view on having the lid on but open enough to let steam out.That's what i do as i don't get a vigorous enough boil otherwise. cheers
Rab - what do you use as a boiler? You boil some large quantities right?

Matt

RabMaxwell

Post by RabMaxwell » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:09 pm

Hello Frothy i use two boilers 120 Litre one i bought from Hop & grape years back and paid an arm and leg for.And a 40 Litre one that i boil the last runnings with then add to the main boiler near the end.The small boiler i got from that E-bay german supplier mentioned on hear from time to time. I don't like topping my fermenter up with water i sparge my hops at the end and stop when my fermenter is at the correct level. Cheers

mysterio

Post by mysterio » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:31 pm

Never heard of hop compounds being kept in but if you've ever made a starter with dried malt extract you get that DMS smell. Not pleasant!

I leave the lid half on during the boil.

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Post by Jim » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:46 am

DJP wrote:If "Nasties" come from the hops, then what effect do the late hops contribute, given that they're presumably not boiled long enough to drive off said "Nasties"?
A good question. It takes a long boil to isomerise the hop acids (which makes them soluble in the wort) - that's why late hops don't contribute bitterness. Presumably, the late hops don't contribute soluble acids, and therefore don't impart harsh bitterness compounds either. :?

Is there a chemist in the house? Steve!!

EDIT: Found quite a good Wikipedia entry on this. Scroll down to the 'Brewing' paragraph.
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Post by Horden Hillbilly » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:23 pm

Horden - you could make a lid with ducting built in to it which you could feed out of the window....

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 7&ts=92135
Cheers Andy, worth looking into.

Vossy1

Post by Vossy1 » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:54 pm

Horden - you could make a lid with ducting built in to it which you could feed out of the window....
That's my job for tomorrow, all the bits are downstairs.

I'll post some pics when it's done :wink:

Ps, 1m extendable to 3m aluminium Marly ducting 100mm, £4.95 at B+Q.

The handy thing about this stuff is that it keeps its shape when positioned :wink:

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Post by Horden Hillbilly » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:50 pm

That's my job for tomorrow, all the bits are downstairs. I'll post some pics when it's done
I would be grateful if you could Vossy, it would be nice to see the finished article before I attack my boiler lid!

I might put this on my "things to do" list during the Christmas hols.

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