Brewferm kits - candy sugar

[KarooAnimal]

Streuth! And 25kg Brewferm kits!! Fantastic - thanks for the link

[b.all]

what are they like for delivery costs, they don't seem to say on trheir website?

[steve_flack]

what are they like for delivery costs, they don't seem to say on trheir website?

You have to stick stuff in your basket then go through checkout before they tell you. IIRC they're reasonable below 1kg, it then jumps up quite a bit between 1kg and 30kg (I think) and then again to 60kg etc.

[bosium]

That's fantastic, I've been trying to hunt some of this down to brew a decent dubbel with for ages!!

Steve, have you used it yourself, and how did it turn out?
I mean, Brewferm sells the rocks, which supposedly aren't the right thing at all, whereas the syrup is supposed to be, so would be great to know that this is the real deal or not.

Cheers!

[steve_flack]

I've got a about 5L of the stuff

I've used it twice - once in a Dubbel and once in a Baltic Porter (just to give a bit of an interesting flavour). It has a very distinctive flavour in the finished beer that is unlike the rocks or any other dark sugar I've tasted. If you're making a Dubbel then this is the stuff.

It might also be quite nice in dark beers that would normally use a dark invert sugar - milds or perhaps an OP style beer.

[bosium]

sorry to hijack this thread, but that's great news, my problem solved. It's crazy how close we are to Belgium and yet we can't get stuff like this here. Even N America can get syrup from the importers Dark Candi, makes me wonder why it's not available here more easily (at all).

Do you have some idea as to how fermentable it is? Will it ferment out completely like plain sugar?
How much should I add to a brew, without its flavour becoming too apparent? I've seen quite a few recipes with both dark candi syrup and plain sucrose / dextrose. Also, will it keep indefinitely? It's so much cheaper to buy the 7kg bottle for EUR38 incl delivery than to get the smaller volumes, but that will take me ages to get through.

I'm looking to make a dubbel in the old way, i.e. a simple grain bill, the right sugar and a good yeast (been using wyeast 1762 up to now). Probably just pilsener, caramunich and candi syrup with hallertau or tettnang, about 6-7% abv.

[steve_flack]

It seems to be pretty fermentable.

The last Dubbel I did was 74% pils malt, 8% Munich, 4% aromatic, 4% caramunich, 2% special B and 8% dark candi syrup bittered with Styrians and late hopped with hersbruker. It was fermented with WLP-500 (Chimay). OG 1.064, FG 1.010, AA 84%, ABV 7.3%. The attenuation is in the ball park you'd expect for a very fermentable sugar.

I don't know how long it keeps for but I've had my 7kg for a couple of years and it's still fine and nothing's growing in it.

I'm surprised that the small bottles aren't imported - the candi sugar rocks are next to useless IMO. You can actually buy it in grocery stores in belgium as it's used as a pouring syrup on things like pancakes and used in baking (apparently).

[bosium]

That sounds pretty good actually, how did it turn out? Would you make any modifications if you brewed it again?
I'm also guessing those percentages are by weight, or did you calculate them by extract?
I thought I'd probaby try a step mash, maybe 146 and then 156, to get the high attentuation, is that similar to what you did or did you just stick to single infusion?

Sorry to bleed you for information, I'm trying to get it right first time. I've seen so many new-world dubbel recipes which feature these majorly complicated grain bills and that's not what I'm after, so it's great to speak to someone who's done it firsthand. Even the recipe in BLAM falls into that category.

[steve_flack]

I just did a single step mash at 64C. With that grist there's really no need to do anything more fancy. The % are by weight.

What would I change? I'd probably change the yeast next time around and probably use the Westmalle yeast. Having said that I tasted a beer (a single) at the weekend brewed with WY-3942 and that tasted very good indeed. It's supposedly the De Dolle yeast and the beer I tasted at the weekend did remind me of their Arabier. The hops are OK although Tettnang would be a nice finishing hop. I would also put some flaked barley or wheat malt in to improve head retention.

[bosium]

Great, thanks for the info. I'll probably order some in the next week or two and get going on the dubbel
+1 to the wheat malt for extra head. never used flaked barley, wonder how that'd turn out

[steve_flack]

I even put flaked barley in my lagers too boost head retention - not much - a couple of a percent. It raises eyebrows but to my mind it's not a million miles away from chit malt that is used in German brewing which is a barely malted barley. In lagers I generally do a separate stepped mini mash with the flaked barley and some of the lager malt - I wouldn't bother in a dark beer though.

[bosium]

I've oft used a small percentage of wheat malt to do the same thing, but I might give barley a try this time.
Do you have any problems with it adding haze to blonde beers?