A brew over several days?

[aus069]

I don't believe it will be OK. It has to be sealed so any air will not enter the vessel. I have also seen mashing done overnight whereby the mash tun is wrapped up snug as a bug with some hot water bottles around it and it lost only a few degrees , you could also try this method.

aus 069

Mike

[Deebee]

Leaving the lid on throughout the boil wont enable the unwanted tanins to be driven off by the steam.

I've often done option 2 (mash & sparge in evening and boil/chill the next day) All you have to remember is once you've sparged into the boiler hold the wort at over 80C for about 15 mins. This will stop any further enzymic activity.

Was there any adverse affect on the beer?

because tis sounds like it would befinately be the best option at present. I trust you left it in the FV to stop any nasties getting in whilst you left it to the next day?

[booldawg]

Leaving the lid on throughout the boil wont enable the unwanted tanins to be driven off by the steam.

I've often done option 2 (mash & sparge in evening and boil/chill the next day) All you have to remember is once you've sparged into the boiler hold the wort at over 80C for about 15 mins. This will stop any further enzymic activity.

Was there any adverse affect on the beer?

because tis sounds like it would befinately be the best option at present. I trust you left it in the FV to stop any nasties getting in whilst you left it to the next day?

It was fine. No need to worry about any nasties overnight as the 90 minute boil the next day will kill anything. I only worry about sanitisation once I've flicked the boiler off for the chill/run-off into FV.

[Deebee]

Then thats that decided. Just need to find a couple of evenings

At the end of the day the worse thing to happen is it goes down the toilet.

[gr_baker]

I used to mash one day and boil the next as a matter of course. Sometimes I'd boil in the morning, sometimes in the evening. The only problem I really had is that 25 litres of wort does take quite a while to come up to boiling temperature so you have to factor that in on the 2nd evening. I've actually left wort 2 days before now and it's been fine in a sterilised, sealed FV.

Russell.

[lancsSteve]

Interesting thread this - got me wondering about how long can you keep beer before pitching yeast? And at which stage should you hold it.

E.G could you reserve a small amount of the wort aside after the boil for a few weeks before pitching yeast into it, then use this 'young beer' for kreaeusening the beer you're going to bottle?

In other words is there any problem with holding post-boiled, cooled wort for a while if it's sealed and held sterile?

[Deebee]

I used to mash one day and boil the next as a matter of course. Sometimes I'd boil in the morning, sometimes in the evening. The only problem I really had is that 25 litres of wort does take quite a while to come up to boiling temperature so you have to factor that in on the 2nd evening. I've actually left wort 2 days before now and it's been fine in a sterilised, sealed FV.

Russell.

This is indeed one of the issues i face although As i mentioned puting a lid on BEFORE and UPTO boiling point will aid this along the way.

I am guessing somewhere around the hour mark for the boil to start, then 10 mins for the hot break, an hour boil and 30 minutes for cooling transfering and pitching.

Even if i start the warming the wort at 8 pm ( as i put the kids to bed) its not going to boil in the short time it takes me to read to them. The hops are already weighed out and in the freezer ready to go, and the mash tun will be washed and packed away.

Once the wort is moved from the FV i can go and reclean that and we are ready for the off.

Looking at the week ahead with meetings on thursday and friday evening it looks like this evening is the right time for the mash and sparge. again the water can go on at 8 ( 12 liter mash ) so thats ok, and when the mash is on i can put the pans back on again for the sparge water. Hopefully i can be done by about 11.

i'll even try and get the wort upto 80 degress for say 15 minutes as was reccommended here.

Thaks for the help, i'll report back as and when i get the chance.

[booldawg]

Interesting thread this - got me wondering about how long can you keep beer before pitching yeast? And at which stage should you hold it.

E.G could you reserve a small amount of the wort aside after the boil for a few weeks before pitching yeast into it, then use this 'young beer' for kreaeusening the beer you're going to bottle?

In other words is there any problem with holding post-boiled, cooled wort for a while if it's sealed and held sterile?

Once your wort has been boiled and chilled you need to get the yeast in straight away. The sooner fermentation takes place the sooner you get your protective layer of CO2 and yeast head which goes some way to protect against infection.

Leaving wort without pitching the yeast for any longer than neccessary is tempting fate.

I'm not sure how leaving some unfermented beer for priming bottles/kegs would work but I'd certainly boil the wort for 15 minutes and crash cool again before use to kill any possible infection. Even though this would kill infections I'm not sure if your green beer would still have off flavours from previous infections even after boiling?

You're probably better making up a spraymalt mix if you want to prime using wort.

[Deebee]

As a report back it actually went very well (other than a stuck sparge:))

I heated the wort to 80, held for 15 then put it in a sanitized FV, closed it up put a full air lock on it and left it.

yesterday a lot of trub had already dropped out and i used a sterile jug to transfer to the boiler.

Tasting of the work post boil was fresh and clean and i had the biggest cold break ever in one of my brews. Fermentation started within 5 hours of itching at 22 degrees, and this is now down to 20.

i'll sheck in a few days for infection. maybe i got lucky.

[lancsSteve]

Good to hear it went well Dave So you raised to 80 first, held it then did the full boil? Or did you raise it to 80 at the end of the mash and then let it cool then boil the next day? (Sorry not quite clear but one of those 'good to knows' for the future.)

Once your wort has been boiled and chilled you need to get the yeast in straight away. The sooner fermentation takes place the sooner you get your protective layer of CO2 and yeast head which goes some way to protect against infection.

Leaving wort without pitching the yeast for any longer than neccessary is tempting fate.

I'm not sure how leaving some unfermented beer for priming bottles/kegs would work but I'd certainly boil the wort for 15 minutes and crash cool again before use to kill any possible infection. Even though this would kill infections I'm not sure if your green beer would still have off flavours from previous infections even after boiling?

You're probably better making up a spraymalt mix if you want to prime using wort.

Thanks for thoughts - am trying to figure straightforward ( ) ways of planning for and using speisse and/or kreasening for conditioning as is done in my favourite lagers (Bernard, Hausbrau Stegaurach). Was figuring if you took some of the runnings from the sparge and kept it refrigerated you could then wait and boil it a week or so later - on a smaller scale in a pan on the cooker say - to have the required effects of hot break, cold break and sterlilisation etc. without doing another full brew.

FOund this info which helps: http://www1.picobrewery.com:8193/askarchive/krausen.htm

Then use this as spiesse/unfermented wort. Have seen it recommended to "keep it frozen in a sanitized plastic container works well to use in place of corn sugar or DME for your priming sugar."

Also want to figure out using kreausen head to essentially make this mini-brew into actively fermenting beer and maybe try side-by-side comparison of kreausened vs just speisse addition. Need to wait for cellar temps to drop a little first though!

I'm getting way ahead of myself and don't want to hijack this thread on a tangent but this got me thinking about the processes as I've not had much luck finding practical step-by-steps of this technique (maybe because it's complicated, risky and unneccesary? Much like decoction mashing?) However it is the 'yeast beers' of Czech Republic and Germany that I think are the most incredible lagers ever and the yeasty character rather than sugary thin lager fizz is the biggest noticeable difference.

[Deebee]

Good to hear it went well Dave So you raised to 80 first, held it then did the full boil? Or did you raise it to 80 at the end of the mash and then let it cool then boil the next day? (Sorry not quite clear but one of those 'good to knows' for the future.)

Steve.
Ok after the sparge had stuck and i gave up trying to get any more out i raised the temperature of the wort on the stove ( i have a 40 liter pan with a tap welded on) to 80 degrees and held it there for 15 minutes to stop enzymic activity ( someone told me to do that)

Then i ran the wort carefully down into the sanitized FV at 80 degrees, put the lid on, let the steam escape for a few moments then put an air lock in as normal.

The next evening i carefully ran the wort back from the Fv to the boiler, and continued as before.

Strangely enough the hot break was quite big, the cold break was massive but this could be due to both the use of Protofloc as opposed to irish moss and the fact that the water in the pipes is really cold at the moment so things cooled really fast.

Even when i have carried the FV to bed, there appeared to b about 4 liters of Cold break in the FV, this has since vanished so i guess its in the bottom of the FV as trub.

I'll let you know how the beer tastes... test time at the weekend.