frustrated with bloody water treatment

[beer gut]

Hi guys in my last dilema with water treatment was about using calcium chloride i thought calcium chloride sofend the water but as i found out it does not. So iam making a strong dark crimbo ale and i need to sofen the water as i live in a area where i have hard water and get the ph more towards 5-3/5-5 how do i do this? in the past i was told to use table salt to sofen the water however caus iam new to this i keep getting told diffrent things and recently told(not from this forum) not use table salt and use calcium chloride to sofen the water is this true? or do i use epson salts to sofen the water?

[jubby]

You still need to reduce your alkalinity beer gut. It doesn't matter how many different ways you ask the question

Forget hard and soft. Check out chris's answer to this post. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24872

You should test your water and record total alkalinity. Decide on the type of beer you want to brew and choose a residual (target) alkalinity. Typically 30 for bitters and 150 for darker beers. Add CRS or boil to reduce the alkalinity. If you don't want to do this, i would recommend that you make no additions. Others may recommend a little Gypsum.

You can continue your quest to add salts willy nilly in an attempt to hit your ideal brewing liquor, but there's a good chance you will ruin your beer as you are guessing. It's far better to be in control by knowing your waters alkalinity (and composition if you later decide to tweek it for different styles).

I would highly recommend reading Graham Wheelers 'Brew Your Own British Real Ale'. The water treatment chapter is very well written and easy to understand. (I wouldn't recommend reading American stuff)

[beer gut]

thanx for the advice i have graham wheelers brewing british ales i have read the chapter about 3 times and i still can't get it that's why i came to the forum. The bit i was intrested in was the colum on calicum chloride and that he recomends you use that insted of normal table salt from which i was told to use when i make dark beers. I have e mailed my water supplyer to find out what water iam getting in my house. How do i test my water? to find out what my water alkline levels are.

[jubby]

You can ask your water supplier for the alkalinity figure. Some will say they don't have it, in which case you can test it yourself with an alkalinity test kit. I think it's called a sailfert kit.

Another option is to post your location because somebody on the forum may be on the same supply and done all of the research.

[mysterio]

Test your water for total alkalinity first then come back with the figure

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24442

[jubby]

That will be salifert, not sailfert

I have just realised what you wrote here beer gut:

The bit i was intrested in was the colum on calicum chloride and that he recomends you use that insted of normal table salt from which i was told to use when i make dark beers.

Graham is not talking about replacing table salt with calcium chloride. He is saying that calcium chloride can be used in place of sulphate salt or as well as.

Table salt is sodium chloride and my understanding is that Graham is not keen on adding it.

It's best to go with mysterio's advice, but if you want to get brewing, follow Grahams advice on page 44 "simple water treatment".

[grmills]

but if you want to get brewing, follow Grahams advice on page 44 "simple water treatment".

Couldn't agree more, finding and acting on those paragraphs made a massive difference to my (AG) outcomes. The most significant (ie notieceable) improvement I ever made for sure.

[ADDLED]

It's best to go with mysterio's advice, but if you want to get brewing, follow Grahams advice on page 44 "simple water treatment".

I use the CRS method then add a teaspoon of gypsum to the mash tun and the kettle. Graham Wheeler says 10g of either epsom or gypsum or 5g of each.
Idiotic question; is a teaspoon of powder 5gms? If so then 10g would be my 2 teaspoons?

[ADDLED]

When I suggest a tsp i'm being deliberately vaugue because it doesn't really matter that much, 1 in the mash and 1 in the boil is just to achieve the minimum amount of calcium required and doesn't take into account any calcium already in the water (and because of the amount being added it doesn't need to take it into account).

If you want a weight to measure out, iirc, 1 tsp of gypsum is 5g but salt additions don't need to be that accurate so I wouldn't waste your money on fancy jewlers scales (CRS additions do need to be accurate though so use a good syringe to measure it out).

Tks chris. Im also trying to get my mash to the right PH, so i guess these minerals and the previous CRS adjustment should get me in the right place or thereabouts? Ive called 5 local chemists today for litmus paper and you'd think i was asking for unicorn droppings by the responses i got.

[GARYSMIFF]

BeerGut Sorry if this a Hi-Jack, ill start up a new post if others wish!

I posted a while back for the answers but goT no responce...
Any one able to provide a lazy man the answers or do I have to continue to do out of tap (via Carbon filter).

my info is as follows:

Water seviced by Hanningfield reservoir Essex.
Anglian water results are:


Low of 140 High of 205 and a mean of 178mg/l CaCO3

Now do I pick the 178 reading and work out what :

What would the values for CRS and DSL be for

Porter/Stout:
Mild:
Pale/Bitter:
Larger:
Wheat:

All help welcome

[ADDLED]

What has low of 140 and a high of 205mg/l CaCO3 ?

That's too much of a spread to be useful as an alkalinity figure, test your own water as per my video in the sticky thread in Brewing liquor viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24442 and treat with CRS as per my sticky in Grain Brewing viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14753

I think Gary is also asking what alkalinity his water needs to ideally be for the following beer styles;

Porter/Stout:
Mild:
Pale/Bitter:
Larger:
Wheat:

I know for pale ales and stouts but would love to know the others too

[GARYSMIFF]

Thank you,


I will snap out of my Lazy Bones and resolve this with the help of your Wisdom and Videos Chris.

Might have to post my calculations when I get true readings for a sense check.

[GARYSMIFF]

I got a kit today, not the one that Chris has but all they had and thought I give it a try:


My tap water comes out at 161(ish) ppm or 9 ºdKH KH which I hope is CaCO3 (ppm)?????????


the best bit is how shocked I am about the water that come out in my sheds magic spring, I have now tested both Home water and Shed water 3 or 4 times and the results for the shed water is:

Between 89.5(ish) and 71.6 so 80 ppm or 4.5 ºdKH KH

Could a Carbon Filter make so much of a difference?

[GARYSMIFF]

I agree the Kit I have could be hit and miss, but I think I might now have the urge to understand my water profile as water is 40ltrs towards my 23 ltrs of beer.
but again the carbon filter defo changes the result.I'll get the pro kit when I can find one local.

The look on people faces in the shop when you say why you want it.

[Graham]

What you have experienced is possible, but I would not have thought so with the level of alkalinity that you have. I could experience it though (if I had a water filter), because I live on the top of several billion cubic feet of chalk and my alkalinity is around 300 as CACO3.

It depends upon how the water is sourced. Deep well water is very cold and can hold lots of carbon dioxide and its associated bicarbonate. Because it is under high pressure and cold, from the well, through the pumping station to your home, this carbon dioxide and its attendent bicarbonate is happily in solution. The water warms up on the journey to your home, and when you open the tap the pressure is suddenly released. The increase in temperature and the drop in pressure means that a lot less carbon dioxide can stay in solution and is released. This in turn means that a lot less bicarbonate can be held in solution and any excess must be precipitated as calcium carbonate. It can take a while before the carbon dioxide reaches equilibrium, and furthermore so little carbonate can be released that it may be in finely divided particles that stay in suspension for a long time and do not settle out, although sometimes giving a visually clear water. This can give a false high on an alkalinity measurement. A filter will take these carbonate particles out.

Sometimes my own cold tap-water clouds when it is first poured, and it is this effect. Some years ago I was confused as to why, when I stirred precipitated chalk into water, by way of experiment, to see if I could raise the alkalinity, I ended up with a lower alkalinity than I started out with. A knowledgeable local council swimming-pool bloke (in the good old days when the council employed their own personnel), told me what was happening. The chalk that I was adding acted as nucleation zones for the finely divided carbonate in suspension to form on, thereby aiding its precipitation and lowering the alkalinity.

I am unable to say whether this is happening in your case, probably not because your carbonate is about half of mine, but it seems to me that the CO2 could come into equilibrium in the pipework to your shed, and the filter takes out the excess carbonate.