Hoegaarden Clone(ish)

[micmacmoc]

Thanks for the advice, I will order some 'proper' wheat with my next grain order, determined to get a good wheaty on the go. BTW My wife says ASDA have a special offer on Hoegaarden at the mo, something like 8 litle bottles for a fiver and of course the bottles would be re-used to bottle your brew so theres as good an excuse as any!
Hsb now sparged and heating up for the boil. Not bad for a 6am start, I'm beginning to get my times down, better organised etc. To think my first brew was 10 hours, this will be cooling before 12 if all goes well......must be time to plan another.

[simple one]

Suprised you need any beer from tescos with that Impressive list of brews on the go!

[micmacmoc]

Don't let the wife hear you saying that! Its purely research!

[Barley Water]

Have any of you guys tried making a Wit using unmalted wheat? Because it is not malted, one would need to do a cereal mash (which really isn't that big a deal) but I have read that crushing the stuff is a pain because the grain itself is like a small ball bearing. Accoring to Ray Daniels in his book "Radical Brewing" this technique gives the beer the smooth/creamy mouthfeel that the commercial Wits have. Now that I have a Barley Crusher, I am very tempted to try this out as a well made Wit is great in the heat of the summer.

The other thing about this beer is that the better examples are just a little sour which of couse makes them thirst quenching. I wonder if the big boys are messing with wild yeasts a bit?

[simple one]

This is what I have been told, please correct me if I am wrong.

Unmalted wheat - cereal mash to enable the starch convertion to take place.
Unmalted flaked wheat - no cereal mash due to it being gelanitised.
Torrified wheat - no cereal mash due to the popping process.

Your question makes me think your suggesting that flaked wheat is malted?

UPDATE: Beer is now called "Casanova 57"

Stopped at 1.017 which is about 4-5 points high... makes it about 5.2%. Syphoned it off in to a secondary due to a small amount of trub smelling BAD, and ditched the the last couple of litres which had a bit floating in there. Tasted it. Its very nice, but is missing a bit of citrus taste and aroma. I may dry hop (i know it isn't going to help to clone hoegaarden) with cascade (or orange zest?), because it might replace a bit of the citrus aroma. Seems them oranges were missed! Feel free to try and stop me as I am in two minds!

[Barley Water]

No, I'm not suggesting that flaked wheat is malted, as you correctly point out though, the starches are gelatized in the "flaking" process so they can be just added to the mash. What I am trying to say however is that there might be flavor and mouthfeel benefits to doing a ceral mash on unmalted wheat. I have a couple or reasons to suspect that might be the case:

First, Ray Daniels in his book mentions that the best way to make a Wit is to do a ceral mash. He states that the mouth feel is greatly improved over using the flaked wheat. I have followed other advice promoted in his book and have had good luck so in my mind, his advice is worth listening to.

Also, I have experience doing ceral mashes on corn grits when making a CAP. I made basicly the same beer using flaked corn and then using ceral mashed corn grits. The second method produced a better tasing beer (in my humble opinion anyway). We are not talking about a quantum difference however and doing a ceral mash is right up there with doing decoctions in terms of the trouble involved and increasing brew day lenght.

If you get a chance, pick up a fresh Hoogarden and see if you don't agree that the beer is silky smooth (along with a great refreshing citrus taste). I think the ceral mash may help with that. For whatever it's worth, I could easily see myself adding some flaked oates to the grist to further that impression. After all, this is a farmhouse beer and you know back in the day, those farmers threw anything they had into the mashtun. At one time, Piere Cellis had a brewery here in Texas so we used to get very fresh Wit on a regular basis, on tap no less. Those days are now gone but the memory of the great beer lives on.

[simple one]

Ta BW, very informative. I did worry about cereal mashes and the likes earlier on. And maybe that could play a part in the high FG. I will give it a go next time.

Drinking both of the beers together. Mine has same mouth feel and malt taste, and is a little lighter in colour. But the Hoegaarden has a better citrus smell and taste. So I may drop some toasted corriander, cascade and orange zest in to the secondary..... I think the spices are the key in this one.

[simple one]

Next time I will use a very strong top cropper too. Maybe SO5... the wheat residue tastes and smell disgusting, and I would rather it be lifted out, than buried down in the mix with the yeast.

More zests and maybe 50% more corriander,

[simple one]

Dry hopped with a 'bit' of cascade, and chucked in a bit more corriander. Probably leave it in the secondary for a few days.

[simple one]

Well had a taste tonight, and its definitely closing in on hoegaarden. Even if its not with the correct recipe or methods. So I thought I best hedge my bets and bottle it now.

My alterations for next time will be:

1. Use SO5 yeast - T58/belgian yeast is good and has some spice. But I think the SO5 may bring some more wheaty flavour through. Also lifting most of the crud (which with wheat is awful) out of the beer.

2. Bitter with cascade or chinook - Yes Hoegaarden wouldn't do it, but it will give a helping hand to getting more citrus taste in to the beer.

3. Add the extra spices/extra hops in to secondary - Until I get the recipe cracked, I'll tinker with the beer in the secondary until it tastes right and then bottle. Also I'll never add loose hops and spices to the secondary again!

4. Give a cereal mash with crushed wheat a go. COME ON BW SHOW US HOW A TEXAN DOES IT, OR IS THEE A COWARD ! (gauntlet thrown)

p.s. For BW there is no need for lambic brewing methods.... the acidic quality/taste of 50% wheat is very strong.

[Barley Water]

Coward you say? With that slight on my reputation, I guess I will have to give it a try. I was thinking late winter, early spring though since that beer is really a summer ale. I also have a couple of spicing ideas for that one that I would like to try as well. I am just getting my "German on" right now as I plan to do at least three lagers in a row (Northern German Pils, Munich Dunkel and possibly a bock) and the yeast is alread purchased.

[simple one]

Well this came out fantastic. The secondary spicing and dry hopping was a good call. And it dropped crystal clear! Next time I will add a couple of table spoons of flour to the boiler to try and haze it up some more. And I'll use SO5 next time I think.

When the yeast is disturbed it mixes to form the correct colour. But It tastes better clear! Blasphemy!

I stick a photo on in a few weeks.