Chemipro Oxi

The place to discuss all things about brewing hygiene!
Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:49 pm

I have noticed that there is an email address on the Chemipro tub and although the company seems to be bases in Japan the supplier looks to have an address in Holland.
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Now, I'm thinking of using my work email and asking them for some data. I might make up a bit of blurb about doing some research into no rinse sanitisers for micro testing equipment...which sounds perfectly feasible :wink:
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Technically, the company have a legal obligation to supply me with the information if I request it in an official capacity, but knowing my luck it would arrive in the bosses intray when I'm off [-X
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I also have access to a few chemical information databases, so I'll see what I can unearth about this mysterious stuff. There certainly seems to be a lack of solid data regarding the effective concentration needed on t'interweb!

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:38 pm

What d'ya reckon?
I've knocked up a draft email that I'll be sending in an 'official' capacity when I get to work in the morning :wink:

Dear Sir or madam,

I work for a Blah blah blah department and I'm presently doing some research into no rinse sterilisation solutions.

Basically I need to sterilise microbiological testing equipment, but not on a large enough scale to justify using vapourised hydrogen peroxide. As autoclaving facilities are no longer available to me, I am looking into cost effective alternatives.

Much of my equipment is small enough to be submerged in a biocidal solution, but as you will appreciate having to rinse off a chemical solution would present a contamination risk.

I am aware that your company is one of the leading suppliers of SodiumCarbonate Peroxyhydrate in Europe. I would be very grateful if you could provide some information regarding this product.

Specifically I need to know what concentration per litre is necessary for adequate biocidal activity against bacteria, yeasts, fungus and spores?

I would also like to know the length of time for which the solution remains actively biocidal?

Many thanks in advance, for your time and help.
Blah blah blah

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:37 pm

Thought I'd just try the general enquiry first, and see how far I get.
If I get a good response, I can be more specific.
I might ask if they have any kill rate date though.
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I think they would have to be very careful if making false claims.
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Anyway, I'll see if or when I get a response. Worth a try as there seems to be very limited information on this stuff.

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:08 pm

Well, I've sent a revised email and ordered some Star San :)
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My biggest worry is my last batch of bottled beer being contaminated :(
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However, I gave my corny a clean with Chemipro Oxy last night and it certainly gets rid of odours. Not even a hint of beeriness. I think I'll just use it up as a cleaner.

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:49 pm

Hmmm, well this stuff needs using up.
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On the plus side I have lots of sterile purified water at my disposal for the Star San. I often open a 1l bottle, use 10mls and have throw the rest away. I will now be able to recycle.
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BTW
Anyone ever used 70% Isopropyl Alcohol?
I have a lot of this stuff going out of date shortly along with sterile impregnated wipes....be a shame to waste it. :wink: (not quite sure how 70% alcohol goes out of date :? !)
I've done loads of validations on this, and manage a pretty consistent 100% kill rate after severely contaminating stuff. The wiping is key as the evapouration process doesn't kill spores.
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I have often used it for odds and sods.....stirring paddles, FV lids etc. I've even used it for the FV on a couple of occasions. Certainly very easy as it all evapourates away.
Probably not viable unless it's free I guess.

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:40 pm

Chris,
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Despite the chemist in me emerging for a while and thinking 'technically it should work' , it would appear that you are 100% correct on all counts :)
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Of course, it would sterilise in large enough concentrations....as you say a very uneconomical amount. 60grams would indeed be needed to make it equivalent to food grade H2O2.
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I got a very brief email from the company stating it is not suitable for sterilisation only for sanitisation.
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I think the biggest problem here is most people would not immediately distinguish between the terms sanitise and sterilise. I don't know if this is deliberate marketing or not.
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I must admit I just though 1kg...8 quid..no rinse...I'll have some. #-o
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Lesson learned. :oops:
Next stop Star San and sterile purified water.

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:46 pm

Yep. It would be great stuff if only it was cheap enough!
Anyway, I have Star San arriving soon and a free supply of purified water and pH testing strips.

rick_huggins

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by rick_huggins » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:15 pm

Just use Detol, TCP & Milton... my Da did and there's fkall wrong with me.. .meep meep, bingdy bongdy, woof bark donkey, don't send me back tit darkroom! ;)

Graham

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Graham » Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:24 pm

Mountain wrote: I got a very brief email from the company stating it is not suitable for sterilisation only for sanitisation. I think the biggest problem here is most people would not immediately distinguish between the terms sanitise and sterilise. I don't know if this is deliberate marketing or not.
The term sanitise does not seem to mean anything legally; so it is a bit of an arse-covering statement because so many people believe the term sanitise to mean much more than it really does. You cannot blame the manufacturers / suppliers of percarbonate for using the term sanitise, because it does that - it cleans - which is all that sanitise really means in British usage at least.

I have always been nervous about the term "sanitation" because it means nothing more than cleanliness and does not, or should not, convey any bug-killing meaning to a British reader. Home brewers seem to be particularly bad at using inappropriately terminology; the sanitise thing seems to have begun in America and taken root over here. Perhaps American usage is different. British Home brewers, before the American influence, probably went too far the other way, and used the term sterilisation, which is probably a bit over the top, but does at least convey something more than just cleaning.

I thought quite a lot about it some time back, and in the end I decided to use the term disinfection as the most appropriate term in my latest book because it conveys something more than mere cleanliness, but is not as paranoid as sterilisation.

According to the Chambers Dictionary, which, in my view, is the most reliable dictionary when it comes to proper British-English usage, sanitisation pertains to public health issues. There is not one single mention of killing bugs in the lengthy paragraph. Taking your refuse and sewage away (and putting it somewhere else) is sanitation. Washing up your crockery in a bowl of Fairy Liquid solution is sanitisation. Surface cleaning is sanitation. Personal hygiene is sanitation. It means producing an environment, usually by moving the environment somewhere else, where vermin and bugs cannot thrive to dangerous levels because there is no food for them (basically). Not a lot of bactericidal power in a Tampax, I would think.
Mountain wrote: I must admit I just though 1kg...8 quid..no rinse...I'll have some. #-o
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Lesson learned. :oops:
Next stop Star San and sterile purified water.
Oxi is an excellent and magical cleaner, I wouldn't do without it now that I have discovered it. You paid expensively for it, but it will not go to waste.

Your bottled beer will be fine. There are people that get way without proper disinfection for years.

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:05 pm

Well, the inside of my corny is like a polished mirror after using the stuff. So it's certainly a very good cleaner!

rick_huggins

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by rick_huggins » Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:13 pm

Seriously, I bought some Oxyclean & Star San after watching Chris Knight on Youtube but haven't used it yet as my VWP had done the trick so far

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:44 am

Just out of interest have you got a link to that? I can't seem to find it.

rick_huggins

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by rick_huggins » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:56 pm

Mountain wrote:Just out of interest have you got a link to that? I can't seem to find it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGrsGPVA_Y

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:53 pm

Cheers.....er, I just noticed the 1-8 part #-o

Mountain

Re: Chemipro Oxi

Post by Mountain » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:56 pm

So, Starsan arrived today, just as a batch is ready for bottling.
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Let me just check I'm getting things right here?
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I've added 1.6ml of Starsan to a 1L bottle of purified water.
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I've put some of this into a small spray bottle.
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Sprayed the inside of each clean bottle. Give it a swirl to get good surface contact. Stick them on my other new toy, a bottle tree.
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Is that it? It seems just too easy. Do I have to let the bottles dry?

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