Reasons not to sparge twice?

[dave-o]

Recently i have been sparging twice, like so:
-60 minute mash
-15 minute sparge
-10 minute sparge

I am still getting plenty of rich colour on the second sparge, so there is clearly plenty more extractable malt left after the first one. However, i don't see many people advocating a second sparge.

I dislike the idea of waste, and of course a slightly smaller grain bill for the same effect is always a good thing.

So, is there any good reason not to sparge twice, or even 3 times?

[mysterio]

There is a trade off between wort quality and extraction. The more you sparge, potentially undesirable compounds you can extract from the grain husk (polyphenols). The extreme form of this is no-sparge brewing, where a brewer will tolerate a very low efficiency (50 - 60%) in order to get the best quality wort.

I have tasted over-sparged beer, it has a 'husky' flavour and an unpleasant mouthfeel (like a dry sensation between the tongue and the roof of the mouth).

[dave-o]

Hmm, interesting.

Are over-sparged beers likely to be harder to clear too?

[mysterio]

Yes that's right, tannins are one of the constituents of chill-haze. Polyclar can help but prevention is better than cure.

I'm not an advocate of no-sparge brewing (although I've never tried it), like you I don't like waste, I just do a 'moderate' sparge length.

[Capped]

I have tasted over-sparged beer, it has a 'husky' flavour and an unpleasant mouthfeel (like a dry sensation between the tongue and the roof of the mouth).

I used to do that all the time ! Well,not all the time but it was an occasional occurence which had me baffled. I think it was someone on this very forum who pointed out the error of my ways - thanks,whoever you were! Now I stop when the runnings reach 1010,strictly no less,and that's measured at whatever temp the runnings are without adjustment. Result? Consistently brilliantly clear ale with no hint of that dreadful astringency.

[Shoit]

Is there a risk of over-sparging with batch sparging or is it much more likely with fly sparging? I regularly batch sparge and have never considered this as a issue? Any thoughts?

Kevin

[TC2642]

I have tasted over-sparged beer, it has a 'husky' flavour and an unpleasant mouthfeel (like a dry sensation between the tongue and the roof of the mouth).

I used to do that all the time ! Well,not all the time but it was an occasional occurence which had me baffled. I think it was someone on this very forum who pointed out the error of my ways - thanks,whoever you were! Now I stop when the runnings reach 1010,strictly no less,and that's measured at whatever temp the runnings are without adjustment. Result? Consistently brilliantly clear ale with no hint of that dreadful astringency.

Yes I do this too, once it reaches the 1010 mark stop (although I have gone to as low as 1008 without problems but usally have enough wort at the 1012 mark) . I sometimes even do three sparges, my beers are usually clear within a week, no astringency or any other issues in that regard.

I do remember listening to a way to keep mark by controlling the ph but I can't remember the specifics. I may be inadvertantly doing this anyway.

[dopejack]

Is there a risk of over-sparging with batch sparging or is it much more likely with fly sparging? I regularly batch sparge and have never considered this as a issue? Any thoughts?

Kevin. I'm confused. Mustn't they be talking about batch sparging anyway? Surely you don't count the amount of times you sparge when fly-sparging?

[Shoit]

I'm confused too - i've never considered the risk of over-sparging when batch sparging. I always just work out my required brew length, grain required and go from there. I never check the gravity of the runnings on the second sparge. I would appreciate any clarification.

Kevin

[EccentricDyslexic]

Do you chaps who do monitor wort gravity during sparging, record the indicated gravity at wort temp or cool to 20c each time you check?

steve

[Capped]

Is there a risk of over-sparging with batch sparging or is it much more likely with fly sparging? I regularly batch sparge and have never considered this as a issue? Any thoughts?

Kevin. I'm confused. Mustn't they be talking about batch sparging anyway? Surely you don't count the amount of times you sparge when fly-sparging?

Yes,sorry I was referring to fly sparging! Perhaps it's still worth checking the gravity of the last runnings when batch sparging though? I suppose it'd give you an idea if you could get away with another one? Eccentric Dyslexic - I check gravity at the temp it comes out of the tap. This means that the true,corrected-for-temp gravity will be considerably higher and that I could get away with sparging further. I know it's wasteful but at least I'm absolutely assured that I'm well within limits. Suits me anyway!

[beermonsta]

as a thought....I normally towards the end of my (fly) sparge have a taste of the wort just to make sure it's not too bitter i.e still some residual sweetness left - is this method suffcient enough to avoid tannins etc? or should I take a spec. gravity reading?..if so do I temporarily hold the sparge until I get my reading, bearing in mind I would have to wait a few mins to cool the wort to get an accurate reading?
thanks - just trying to conquer my astingent taste problems (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27727&p=302239#p302239)
Ta muchly,
Ben

[TC2642]

Do you chaps who do monitor wort gravity during sparging, record the indicated gravity at wort temp or cool to 20c each time you check?

steve

I use a refractometer so I don't need to worry about the wort temp. One of the best pieces of equipment I've got.

[Northern Brewer]

On balance, the best method of sparging is the 2 batch sparge for speed, simplicity and over all wort quality without compromising efficiency.

I would second that. You know it's going to work every time. Brewing takes me less than 4 hours from switching the boiler on to turning it off again (I then cool in the boiler). I take the dog for a walk during the mash and find plenty of things to do during the 2 run-offs and the boil. I rely heavily upon a clockwork cooking timer to provide vital reminders, because I easily get carried away doing other stuff whilst brewing.

[EccentricDyslexic]

Capped, so the 1010 thats often quoted, is that at wort temp then? ie 66c ish?

TC2642, sounds a usful piece og kit, and only needs a drop of wort rather than a cup full, does your read in SG, and where did you get yours from?

cheers!

steve