St Austell's Tribute

[micmacmoc]

spose it may be that the brewery thats closest to home is the least loved. I dispise st austell brewery. Their beer and pubs are the worst in Cornwall. Give me skinners ar sharps anyday. Or wooden hand.
st austell? st awfull. bland nothing beer.
I bet whatever any of you guys brewed would be more to my taste than their awful offerings.
sorry, it really does taste like brown, sweet water that makes me poo.

except proper job, thats not so bad.


oh and Tribute.

[SMASH3R]

Ok this is the recipe I'll be brewing next Sunday, assumes 70% efficiency:

4kg Maris Otter 80%
1kg Munich 20% (as per info here)

Estimated OG: 1046
Estimated FG: 1013

12 IBU Willamette (60min)
10 IBU Fuggles (60min)
4 IBU Fuggles (15min)
4 IBU Willamette (15min)

Massive amount of Styrians at 80deg and steep for 30mins.

Gonna use WLP002 English Ale yeast

This seems like the nearest recipe to me. I am just starting AG and Tribute is something I would like to have a go at as brew number 2 or 3.
When I was at St Austell brewery last year, the recipe was laying on the top of the mash tun. It was simply 3200kg pale malt and 700kg Cornish gold (18% by weight then)
People are right that the malt comes from Edwin Tuckers in Newton Abbot. I contacted them to ask where they supply the malt to, and they told me that St. Austell supply the grain, Tuckers malt it and send it all back to St. Austell. So basically Cornish gold malt is not available. However, with Tribute originally being brewed with Munich malt, I think this is a fair substitute.

From (associated) word of mouth, I have also heard that Willamette hops are the big additions during bittering, therefore I'm inclined to think what jonnyv has suggested must be somewhere near.

Interestingly there was no adjuncts that I recall in the recipe, but I think I will add a small addition of torrified wheat to aid head retention.

I have no idea how to use the 82% to 18% ratios to calculate my grain requirements for a 23 litre final beer quantity. Can anyone help with this?
For my hops I have calculated for a 90 minute boil of 25 litres, assuming 20% and 10% utilisation after 90 and 15 minutes respectively:
Fuggle at 3.8% = 33g at 90 mins and 26g at 15 mins
Willamette at 6.6% = 23g at 90 mins and 15g at 15 mins

I will also chuck in 50g styrians at the start of cooldown and dry hop with 10g or so (in a hop bag with marbles) whilst in the conditioning barrel (for a week) prior to bottling.
Even if it is not like Tribute, I am hoping for tastiness none-the-less.

[SMASH3R]

I have just discovered Beer Engine v1.09.
According to this, for 25 litres of goodness for fermentation with 75% mash efficiency I should use:

3900g pale malt
850g Munich malt
to give 4.2% alc, colour 11 EBC, 1043 OG and 1010 FG

Adding 200g torrified wheat bumps the alcohol up by 0.2% but changes nothing else.

For 30 IBU's, the hops it recommends are:
28g of 3.9% fuggles, 20% utilisation produces 9 IBU's
24g of 6.6% willamette, 20% utilisation produces 13 IBU's
16g of 3.9% fuggles, 12% utilisation produces 4 IBU's
17g of 6.6% willamette, 12% utilisation produces 4 IBU's

The software seems to have wildly differing hop utilisations depending on time in boil compared with what Graham Wheeler recommends in Home Brewing. He suggests 20% for a 90 min boil, hence I adjusted Beer Engine v1.09 to hit utilisation rather than time. The hop weights from BE seem very different to those I calculated using Wheelers equations in the book even after adjusting to give the same utilisation I was using before?

Any suggestions?

[weiht]

Hi Smah3r,

im glad u are doing a tribute clone. I've tried it 3 times and failed twice due to a recall batch of nottingham ale yeast. I'd like to ask what yeast are you planning to use?

In all my attempts in homebrewing, the tribute is one that seems the hardest to achieve. Maybe its just that I want to clone it really bad and close to the real thing. Its always lacking that final touch...

Oh another thing is im curious to know if there will be much difference in forced carbonating it vs cask conditioning.

All the best to ur brew

[Mauri]

you could use St Austell's own yeast re-cultured from a couple of bottles of Admiral or Proper Job. It's their primary strain.

[weiht]

i cant get it from where im at... south east asia where piss taste better than our beers, just kidding

[SMASH3R]

I swear I have had bottles of Tribute with sediment in the bottom. It is not something you really get that often anymore, but as I got down to the bottom of the first bottle of the night I thought 'crikey, a bit chewy'. An inspection of other bottles reveals why. Glass pouring from then on in.

Anyway, I have brewed the beer as follows to produce about 26 litres in the fermenter:
3800g pale malt
1000g vienna malt (I didn't have Munich)
100g torrified wheat (for head retention)
90g crystal (to get colour near to the 11 EBC beer engine suggests if you just add 80:20 pale and munich, plus I thought the tiny bit of body wouldn't hurt with the vienna instead of munich)
What a botched recipe!

The efficiency was way up on this batch, so I had to top up the fermenter with 3L (calculated) of water to get the gravity down to 1.043.

Hops schedule was also a compromise because willamette are expensive and I hadn't discovered barley bottom at the time of ordering, so I used Bramling Cross instead (which according to Charles Faram has strong blackcurrent flavours instead of Willamette's delicate blackcurrent. Oh well:
12 IBU of Bramling Cross at 60 mins
10 IBU of Fuggle at 60 mins
4 IBU of both Bramling and Fuggle at 15 mins
20g of Styrian Goldings added a minute after switch off

Just used Muntons Premium Gold yeast. I am now a bit concerned about attenuation, but a hydro reading this week will confirm how the yeast has performed.
I must say, even during fermenting, this brew smells really, really great. I might be trying too hard to convince myself that this does actually smell along the lines of Tribute, but the proof will be in the drinking. I intend to bottle with reasonable carbonation, just like the bottled Tribute available. Even if it ends up nothing like, I am sure it will still be tasty, and if that''s the worst I end up with I will be very happy.

[weiht]

hi smash3r,

i had the same issue with u initially. I guess we all just refuse to stick to the simplicity of the recipe of 80% pale malt n 20% munich, n we try to add a little of this n a little of that to bring it to our preference... In a little way, we try to "improve" the tribute but keep of getting further n further from our goal. So i guess it best to Keep It Simple Stupid.

My main problem here is i cant get my hands on styrians, so my final flavouring is williamette. I tried a bland of fuggles n cascade before n the cascades were just too strong n "destroyed" it.

I too had an issue with efficiency and have always end up with a higher OG, i usually will bring it down by adding some water but that would change the hop flavours a little.

Incidentally, i am gg to brew another batch of tribute TOMORROW, n will pitch nottingham ale yeast. My grist consist of 77% MO, 18% Munich and 5% crystal 20 (I just had to be a smart alec rite), I really hoping to succeed this time, as i wasnt pleased at all the last 3 times. keeping my fingers crossed

[Chard]

keen to know the outcome buddy!

[SMASH3R]

I will certainly post up my results once ready, but this will probably not be for at least a month. I will be bottling the beer, and I find I need to leave it at least four weeks to condition to give a massive improvement compared with cracking a bottle open early.
The beer is still in the fermenter at the moment. I will transfer to the secondary today with a splash of brewing sugar (expel any air through the airlock), then dry hop with some more styrian goldings in a bag mid-week. Bottle next weekend with brewing sugar, and leave for 2 weeks in a warm dark place, and at least 2 weeks in cool place, if not longer. The self control for this is painful

[weiht]

i completed my brew on saturday, and wasnt very pleased with the efficiency i got. Usually i get about 80% efficiency but on that day, i only had 71% or so. I was targetting an og of 1044 with 23L but ended up only with 20L. So that would screw up the IBU a little from about 30 to around 33-35. I also forgot to add irish moss, gosh talk about absent mindedness..

There isnt any styrians golding from where im at, so i added a mix of willamette and some fuggles at flame out and steeped it for 20mins. Used nottingham ale yeast.

Im tempted to brew again this sat, partly due to the present batch not up to my satisfaction and i also want to try do a side by side test with one that is force carbonated. I just hoping it turns out well, as there are times when u think that it will turn out killer n it falls short, n times when u think u screwed up certain things n it surprises u.

i hope this batch goes Yeasy on me

[SMASH3R]

I have, at last, sampled the fruits of my labour.

In the end, the Muntons gold yeast has nearly cleared after being in bottles in a warm place for two weeks.
Chilled beer in fridge prior to serving. Upon popping the crown cap, the hiss wasn't as pronounced as it would be with commercially bottled Tribute, but there was still plenty of carbonation in the brew.
The colour, flavour and aroma for this brew have been spot-on, but unfortunately the strength of flavour and aroma has been lacking. I put this down to two reasons:

1. I only had Vienna malt available (7 EBC) and the recipe calls for Munich malt (20 EBC). Next time I will buy some Munich malt and I believe this will go a long way to addressing the body of the beer.
2. Although the bitterness is good (30 IBU's in beer engine) the hop flavour is just not strong enough. I only added 10g of Styrians for dry hopping. Based on other threads I have read I think I should be aiming for something like 25-50g if I want the real hop kick. Again, I am hopeful that on the next attempt making this change will go a long way to getting more toward a clone.

As for adding the torrified wheat, I have zero head retention when poured out of a bottle so I will eliminate it from the next recipe too.

Basically, I am echoing the opinion of weiht earlier. Keep the ratio of 80:20 pale:munich malts, plus chuck in a bundle of hops for dry hopping and it should be somewhere thereabouts.

If anyone else has brewed this, I would love to hear how you have got on.

[coatesg]

I'm just having a pint of my "A la Tribute" (see: brewday thread). It's a very tasty, even if not 100% clear in the keg as yet, and has a lot of the right flavours, but I think I used a bit too much late hopping. Otherwise, the Willamette and Styrians work very well together, and the bitterness comes through nicely. I'll have to go to one of the two Youngs pubs in Oxford to try a pint and remind myself what I'm aiming for again

[weiht]

Hi Guys,

I just did another tribute last week and this round it seems really gd. The previous time, i did everything correct EXCEPT that i forgot to treat my water, and the beer came out extremely crappy with soft water!!!

What i did this time was to add 18g of fuggles n williamette at 60mins, another 16g of fuggles and williamette at 15mins, and 45g of styrian flower at post boil for 30mins. I used nottingham ale yeast and everything is looking good at the moment. Possible set back would the styrians, as i found out that they are from New Zealand and carries a hint of vanilla. But it does taste great for far.

keeping my fingers crossed so far!!!

Oh, i need some advice here. I have not tried dry hopping, and wonder shld i add the in the 2nd FV or can i skip if since i steep them for 30mins post boil. I afraid of contamination risk.

[chrisr]

Hi

I’m new on here, so forgive my ignorances/naiveties.

I started brewing a few months back, really because I wanted Tribute and it is rare up here (Derbyshire).

I’ve had one go at Tribute, and it wasn’t great. I think I overdid the final Styrian steeping (because one recipe I found said to use a “massive amount” of Styrians). The recipe I used is below - basically it’s just one from earlier in this thread. But I believe I can tell all the flavours are in there – just not in the right proportions! I’m going to have another go in a couple of weeks.

Comments on previous posts:
Someone said they were concerned about the impact on the flavour of diluting to hit the target OG – I wouldn’t worry too much, as that is what StA do, anyway - I asked them while on a brewery tour. The brew is done from a higher OG, then diluted after fermentation to hit the target strength. (I think that’s what a lot of commercial brewers do – you can see it would make best use of the hardware. I once talked to someone who worked at Adnams and he told me their Broadside finishes fermenting with around 12% (if I recall correctly - it was quite a while ago) alcohol, which was then diluted down to the selling strength. He also said the undiluted Broadside was a fantastic drink!)
I don’t believe StA don’t dry hop (I’m referring to the cask) Tribute. The only beer they do is HSD.

And on a slightly different topic: if you want a more interesting brewery tour, go to the Celtic beer festival. You can have a free tour from that; we always go on the tour, to have a break from the drinking. The guides have always been people who really work there and they seem to know loads of stuff. And will tell you if you ask them. In the past we’ve had one who seemed to work on the actual brewing side of things and one that was in quality control. And as everyone is slightly(!) under the influence by that time, the atmosphere on the tour seems to be a lot more friendly and open.

ChrisR



My first attempt:
80% Maris Otter
20% Munich
12 IBU Williamette for 90 mins
10 IBU Fuggles for 90 mins
4 IBU Williamette for 15 mins
4 IBU Fuggles for 15 mins
70g Styrian for 30mins at 80C (no, don’t laugh) – this was far too much, and I think I’ll try 30g next time.