A Tale of Three Weizens

[dave-o]

I'm going to do three back-to-back weizens, starting this weekend, recycling the yeast.

They are going to be largely the same hop- and method-wise, with the grains being changed to provide different characters.

All recipes are for 23l batches, and comments/suggestions are welcome.

MUNICH WEIZEN

2000.00 gm Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 45.5 %
2000.00 gm Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 45.5 %
400.00 gm Caramel Wheat Malt (90.6 EBC) Grain 9.1 %
25.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (90 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
Yeast - WB-06
Fermentation temperature - 22c

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.3 %
Bitterness: 12 IBU
Est Color: 18.5 EBC


IMPERIAL DUNKEL

2000.00 gm Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.0 %
1000.00 gm Imperial Malt (50.0 EBC) Grain 22.0 %
1000.00 gm Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 22.0 %
300.00 gm Caramel Wheat Malt (90.6 EBC) Grain 6.6 %
250.00 gm Wheat, Roasted (837.3 EBC) Grain 5.5 %
25.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (90 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
Yeast - WB-06
Fermentation temperature - 22c

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.3 %
Bitterness: 17 IBU
Est Color: 47.3 EBC


VIENNA WEIZEN n.b. This one is designed to be "thicker" and with more of a lemon taste - hence the late Bobek. I have done a similar one using late Liberty and it worked very well. It is also being fermented hotter, for more wheat beer yeast characteristics.

2000.00 gm Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 40.0 %
2000.00 gm Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 40.0 %
700.00 gm Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 14.0 %
300.00 gm Caramel Wheat Malt (90.6 EBC) Grain 6.0 %
25.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00%] (90 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
15.00 gm Bobek [5.40%] (10 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
Yeast - WB-06
Fermentation temperature - 25c

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.9 %
Bitterness: 15.2 IBU
Est Color: 13.5 EBC


I'll try to do some pics.

[Swiller]

Like the sound of the IMPERIAL DUNKEL dave don't forget to let us know how they turn out, I am off to Bavaria tomorrow so I will be sampling plenty of the local brews like Dunkel.... Yum!

J

[leigh1919]

I like the look of the imperial dunkel as well - post some piccies up when done fella!

[Barley Water]

Looks like good fun to me. The only thing I probably would not do is use "roast anything" in a wheat beer. If you are going for a darker color, our buddies in Germany came up with Carafa (the dehusked variety) which is great for coloring without the roast. The reason I try to avoid the roast is because it will completely overpower the flavors that the yeast provide. Of course, I am very traditional so don't let me rain on your parade, if it sounds good to you then give it a try. By the way, I generally think of an Imperial Dunkel Wheat beer as as Weizenbock.

[dave-o]

our buddies in Germany came up with Carafa (the dehusked variety) .

Is this the colour component in a traditional Dunkel then?

I have seen the phrase "dark wheat malt" used alot, but i have not seen anything similarly named in any grain shop. Roast wheat was the closest thing i could find, so i figured it could be this.

I am not expecting the Imperial Dunkel to have a standard dunkel taste, but i had imagined the kilo each of imperial and munich would give enough flavour so that it's not all about the roastiness - what do you think? I'd be happy to scale back the roast if you think it's going to mask these two.

[coatesg]

The imperial dunkel does look quite like a dunkelweizen.

You should definitely try out a liquid yeast on weizens - the WLP-300 gives much more of the banana/clove combination than the dried yeasts.

[dave-o]

I may well try out liquid yeasts in the future, but i am too stingy currently! (and yes i do know they can be split and "grown")

I used Danstar Munich for two wiezens last year, and despite reports from some other JBKers that it's a "horrible" yeast i had a lot of success with it, and i would say (as would the Mrs.) that the two beers i made from it are the best i have ever made (one was a pseudo-dunkel with lots of Munich malt and one a light, lemony hefe). With the hefe i did get notes of banana/clove - at least as much as with the two commercial wiezens i have tried recently (Grolsch wiezen and Weihenstephan), so I have some hopes for WB-06, as it seems to be held in higher regard than Danstar.

But yes, I will certainly try WLP-300 at some point, if only so i can make a proper comparison.

[Barley Water]

My understanding is that the Germans use the Carafa malt to adjust color. I use it all the time and it works great. Anytime you want to adjust the color without a roast component, it's perfect. I have used it to color Dunkelweizen, regular Munich Dunkel, Double Bock and as a component in Four Shades of Stout (where what you are trying to do is dumb down the astringent roast flavor just a bit). I don't think you can really make a Swartzbier without using it as the beer will otherwise end up way too roasty (here what you want is a black pilsner basicly). When selecting your grains, make sure you are getting the dehusked though, all the tannins which cause the roasty, astringent flavors are in the husk which in this case have been removed. I have recently seen talk of making a black IPA. If I were going to do something like that, I would use this malt for color adjustment.

I personally have never seen roasted wheat malt and we have a very large selection to choose from over here. I suspect that the homebrew market is much larger in the States than in the UK which accounts for the difference (and by the way, it seems to be picking up over here). Anyhow, I have seen and used the dark wheat malt. I made a Dunkelweizen which was basicly 70% dark wheat malt with the balance of the grist being Munich malt (plus a bit of Carafa for color). What I was trying to do was make a Munich Dunkel out of wheat rather than all malted barley and then of course I used WLP300. The beer didn't win anything at our big show recently but it did get into the second round of judging so I am pretty happy with that. I really need to start drinking off that keg, I may have some ideas for improvements after putting away a few liters and reviewing the score sheets.

If you want to try something completely out there, a few years ago I was bottling and I ended up mixing a standard Heffeweizen with a Robust Porter. Because I hate to throw away good beer I drank the mixture and it was pretty good. Some time when I'm bored, I might try to forumulate a wheat porter and use standard wheat beer yeast rather than traditional ale yeast. It just happened that the mixture I drank had alot more heffe than porter so the roast component didn't overpower the clove/bananna flavors. For something like this to work, I would think that the roast would need to be minimal so I would think that Carafa would come in very handy in a beer like this.

[dave-o]

If you want to try something completely out there, a few years ago I was bottling and I ended up mixing a standard Heffeweizen with a Robust Porter. Because I hate to throw away good beer I drank the mixture and it was pretty good. Some time when I'm bored, I might try to forumulate a wheat porter and use standard wheat beer yeast rather than traditional ale yeast. It just happened that the mixture I drank had alot more heffe than porter so the roast component didn't overpower the clove/bananna flavors. For something like this to work, I would think that the roast would need to be minimal so I would think that Carafa would come in very handy in a beer like this.

Actually i had also considered a wheat porter, it does sound great. I also plan to do a "wheat stout" too at some point, using the roast wheat. It would be something like:

400g Roast Wheat
1000g Flaked Wheat
3000g Wheat malt
using a wheat yeast.

These are about the same quantities i'd use for a basic stout, except of course with roast, flaked and malted barley.

[jason123]

I love a wheat beer myself and these sound luuuurvly. Better make sure you post some results up Dave. Happy Brewing

[dave-o]

I will do.

Munich Wiezen has just finished fermenting.

I'm thinking of reducing the roast wheat on the Dunkel down to 100g or 150g. I don't want it to get in the way of the Imperial.

[dave-o]

The Munich Wiezen has gone into secondary. It has gone from 1.048 to a touch over 1.010 in 6 days.
I am quite shocked by that attenuation actually. It tastes a bit watery, which i was not expecting with so much Munich. Then again, ales never taste the same out of primary as they do when matured, so i'm not too worried yet.

[dave-o]

Here's the Munic Wiezen:



Verdict:

It is full-flavoured, as expected, and the banana taste is quite noticable. The colour is much darker than i had expected, possibly due to the crystal wheat.

I have decided to make a few changes to the other two recipes. For starters I am going to use Tettnang, and i am also going to add some late hops. I know that's not the traditional method, but homebrewing is (IMO) about making beers that you like, and i like late hops. Also some grain changes to the dunkel recipe after Barley Water's advice

Here are the new recipes:

IMPERIAL DUNKEL

2500 gm Wheat Malt
1000 gm Imperial Malt
1000 gm Munich Malt
500 gm Lager Malt
100 gm Carafa I
25.00 gm Tettnang (90 min)
20 gm Tettnang (10 min)
Yeast - WB-06
Fermentation temperature - 22c


VIENNA WEIZEN

2000 gm Vienna Malt
2500 gm Wheat Malt
500 gm Oats, Flaked
20 gm Tettnang (90 min)
20.00 gm Bobek (5 min)
Yeast - WB-06
Fermentation temperature - 23c