Water treatment help please!

[nath812]

Hi guys,

I have progressed from kits to all grain and have about 8 under my belt. The last few times I have been dabbling with water treatment (thanks to the calculator on this site).

I reckon I may be adding stuff at the wrong times and trying to find a definitive answer by twarling through the forum pages has made me more confused, so im here to ask for your help please!

So my water is the following (from the water people):-

Calcium – 106 mg/l
Magnesium – 1.9 mg/l
Sodium – 9 mg/l
Sulphate – 15 mg/l
Chloride – 18 mg/l
Alkalinity – 208 CaCO3

Plugging these into the calculator and selecting a dry pale ale target gives me this to do for my 35ltrs brewing water:-

CRS - 34.7ML
Gypsum - 11g
Calcium Chloride - 1.39g
Epsom Salts - 4.65g
Normal Salt - 1.87g
So this is where I need clarification:-

1.CRS - add to water before anything.

2.Gypsum - some in mash rest in water (16.5ltr mash so 5.2g then rest in water, so the rest goes before boil or during boil?)

3.Calcium Chloride - I havent a clue when to add this - before boil, during mash or during boil

4.Epsom and normal salts- I have heard in boil?

To make things a bit more complicated I looked at a newish thread that says to go to brupaks website to calculate crs additions (so its around 30 for pale beers??) and it seems this calculator has a different value.

I hope someone can set me on the right path!

Many thanks,


Nath

[Tony01]

Hmmm ... My water has alkalinity of about 270 mg/l and I calculated that to be around 33 ml CRS. I don't have the figures here with me at work unfortunately but yours does seem a little high.

[nath812]

Hehe, hello Tony!

[Tony01]

Hey nath .. saw your name earlier and wondered!

heh heh

[nath812]

Looking at that the crs is pretty much spot so thats good, thanks for that, just when to add the stuff now then please!

[befuggled]

I probably do this differently to anyone else, but here goes...

I do not use CRS, but if I did I would put it in the HLT and stir well.
The other salts I split three ways:
Gypsum into three.
All the others into two of these. It is dead easy with three plastic pots on a reasonably accurate balance.

First lot of all salts goes into the mash tun, dry with the grist and mixed dry. Underlet the mash liquor.

I batch sparge so the second lot of all salts gets mixed in at this stage.

Gypsum only goes in the boiler before draining the mash into it (with the first hops, although I didn't know I was First Wort Hopping for some time!)

The Gypsum in particular dissolves more easily in a acidic liquor/wort. (From Graham, Chris-x1, both or somewhere else, please correct this if I am wrong!)

[nath812]

Sorry, I got the crs bit. I mean when to add the calcium chloride and others :-

2.Gypsum - some in mash rest in water - 16.5ltr mash so 5.2g then rest in water, (so the rest goes before boil or during boil?)

3.Calcium Chloride - I havent a clue when to add this - before boil, during mash or during boil

4.Epsom and normal salts- I have heard in boil?

Ta,


Nath

[EccentricDyslexic]

I put all my salts in the HLT and stir it every now and then while it heats up to strike temp, works well for me.

Steve

[nath812]

Cool so the extra epsom and normal salts wouldnt make any difference to the mash ph then? I suppose the water we are immitating is "as is" before the whole process anyway so what am I worring about!

Ta peeps,


Nath

[EccentricDyslexic]

Cool so the extra epsom and normal salts wouldnt make any difference to the mash ph then?

Thats how i understand it. GW sez- "With the exception of calcium carbonate, which is always added to the mash in proportion to the amount of mash liquor, the best place to add the salts is generally to the total volume of the liquor."

Steve

[befuggled]

Another view:
I have not been to many breweries lately, but Palmers of Bridport have several "HLTs" at different temperatures.
They do not treat the water in the HLTs but add "softeners" as they use it.
I prefer to keep treatment out of the HLT as I do not empty it every time. This means I could (but seldom do) change the treatment as per Graham's calculator for each brew.

[nath812]

Man, now I am confused!

Seeing as I have 1 hlt then I may just go the way of splitting treatments (which are not detrimental to mash) in the required ratios.

Gigedy gigedy

[befuggled]

Sorry Nath
Go with Chris-x1 for the CRS.
Then you need gypsum in the mash. It is a buga to dissolve in the HLT.
Many here say "a teaspoon in the mash and a teaspoon in the boil".
The other salts are far less important and again, many here ignore them.
However, they will dissolve, so you could put them in the HLT, after the CRS.

[Tony01]

Take out a few litres of water from the HLT in a large jug and wizz it up with a stick blender and return it if you want to dissolve it into the water in the HLT although you may still find some settles to the bottom.

Never thought of doing that .. that's a great idea!

[Aleman]

Gypsum is only soluble to 2.5g in 1L (Cold Water) and I suspect that it is affected by the levels of calcium in the water as I have no issues in getting gypsum to dissolve at all (My water only has 16 mg/l Calcium). . . . Having said that I haven't tried to dissolve 5g in 1L . . . its easier to add it to the mash . . . and the bottom of the kettle