Light wheaty beer recipe thoughts...

[Williaaaam]

Hi there i am going to brew this beer on friday let me know what you think its based on the hoegaarden recipe i saw on here this is only my 2nd AG..

Grist

10 kg maris otter
6kg wheat malt
4kg torriffied wheat
1kg golden naked oats

HOPS
SAAZ 60G
BOBEK 100G

also 20g coriander and 20g organe peel in boil.

Yeast
Safbrew WB-06

[dave-o]

IMO for very light beers like Hoegaarden, use flaked wheat, not wheat malt. And i can't see the point in 4kg of torri.

For a hoegaarden clone, i'd go:

45% pils (or lager) malt
45% flaked wheat
10% oats

Use some coriander seeds and put a couple of whole oranges in for the last 15 minutes of the boil and for the primary ferment.

This is the closest to Hoegaarden i have ever come.

Your yeast will also make a big difference. I used Danstar Munich, but there are plenty of other (probably more authentic) options. I have used WB-06 for the last two wheat beers and I am not sure about it. Both brews have had a slightly sour taste, but of course something else could be to blame.

[Williaaaam]

im not really looking to clone hoegaarden just want a nice pale drink with wheaty tones. You think this recipe would not work?

[dave-o]

I don't think it would be as pale as it would with flaked wheat.

And the huge amounts of torri are odd.

Do both - see what you think!

[Williaaaam]

how much torrified you think i should put in? these are basically the ingredients i have to play with atm any advise would be fantastic! Thanks for your feedback

[Williaaaam]

i read that German Weissbier brewers use up to 70% wheat malt in their grist, but 50% is a more realistic proportion for the home brewer. Thats what it says most places so tohught i would experiment but maybe i should just take out the torrified wheat and make it up with some more maris otter or wheat malt?

[dave-o]

how much torrified you think i should put in? these are basically the ingredients i have to play with atm any advise would be fantastic! Thanks for your feedback

None. I only use torri in brews that have no wheat in them anyway. You have enough wheat in that that it'll have a huge head if you prime it enough.

i read that German Weissbier brewers use up to 70% wheat malt in their grist, but 50% is a more realistic proportion for the home brewer.

Yes, that could be right. I have happily used up to 60% so i'd probably try 70% without worrying.

I see you're not keen on my flaked wheat suggestion. Up to you but i really recommend you try it. With wheat malt it makes a darker, more german style wiezen, but with flaked you get the light white wheat beer like Hoegaarden and Grolsch wiezen, that is probably more characteristic of belgium/holland

Anyway, if you go with your recipe, adjust to 50/50, remove the torri and brew it you will get a nice beer. If you enjoy making wheat beer, try flaked wheat next time to compare.

If you use MO instead of pils/lager it will also be darker. Not really a problem as such, it will still work and be nice.

[Williaaaam]

ok great ill try flaked wheat next time can you just buy that in the supermarket? i couldnt see it on barley bottom unless i am being blind!! Thanks for your advise!

[dave-o]

Yeah BB don't do it for some reason.

Hop and Grape do:
http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/catalog/ca ... UNM2146439

Also, i think Thrifty Shopper could be persuaded to, as they seem keen to please everyone at the moment. They don't charge for delivery over £25 either.

[awalker]

i read that German Weissbier brewers use up to 70% wheat malt in their grist, but 50% is a more realistic proportion for the home brewer. Thats what it says most places so tohught i would experiment but maybe i should just take out the torrified wheat and make it up with some more maris otter or wheat malt?

Did a nice 85% wheat beer last week, you just need to raise the grain bed temp at mash out.

[Zapp Brannigan]

I regularly do 70% wheat weizens without any problems. If you batch sparge for 30 mins at 80 degs you shouldnt have any problems with the mash sticking. I am brewing full-on hefeweizens with these proportions mind, as opposed to a wheat "themed" beer if you know what I mean.

If you want an easy drinking wheaty brew, why not use 65% MO and 35% wheat malt, fermented with an ale yeast?

ZB

[yogester]

my 2p is to cut back on the coriander and the orange peel. no more than 10g each....

i made a wit bier recently with the same proportions of coriander and orange peel and it well over powered the yeasty-wheaty flavours it seems like you are after.

i also would go the 50:50 Pale:Flaked Wheat Malt (if you are going with the coriander/curacao) or the 60:40 Pale:Wheat Malt (gut feeling - no experience brewing bavarian weiss bier, just shop talking with other home brewers i respect). i used wlp400 but i have heard that S-33 is good too (for wit beers). I found fermentation temperature changed things dramatically. I ran one in my fermentation cupboard/kegerator at 21, raising to 25 after 3 days and another in the hall which ran to 23 and then ramped it next to a radiator to 27. The hall fermentation definitely had a better phenolic:ester balance (your results may vary) - first time a "hall" fermentation has outperformed the fermentation cupboard/kegerator.

there just seems like so many areas to control in wheat beer production to get it nailed... you really have to hand it to the germans and the belgians....

[Williaaaam]

might go for the 60:40 maris/wheat malt what temp u think i should mash at? was gonna do a 90 min one then i fly sparge..thanks for all the tips guys!

[Barley Water]

Just a couple of thoughts as to tell you the truth, this thread is a little confusing to me. First of all, I see Wit bier as very different than Weisbier and both of those are very different than wheat ales (both British and American). The similarity is that all three use wheat but in my opinion, all three taste very different to me and I would go about brewing them differently.

Wit is a Belgian creation and is spiced, typically with coriander and orange peel (plus various other spices of the brewers choosing). The beer most associate with this style is Hoogarden as a previous poster mentioned. You can get the Hoogarden yeast from both Wyeast and White Labs I believe and if you want this style of beer, that is what I would suggest. In my opinion, this beer is very difficult to make well and I have tasted very few homebrewed verisions that I thought were good (and trust me, I have tried many over the years). The trick with this beer is to make the mouthfeel almost creamy, the good stuff always has that attribute. The Belgians use unmalted wheat in their examples and I believe this may be the secret to the mouthfeel issue. It will need to be cereal mashed and raw wheat is a pain to handle but I really think that this is the road to the "promised land" for this style of beer. I don't recommend this style for somebody doing just his second all grain beer since as mentioned, it's tricky stuff. I plan to start screwing around with this style once I get out of my lager phase this summer.

Weisbier or heffeweizen is the traditional German wheat beer from Bavaria and I make quite a lot of this style. This beer is all about the yeast and how you handle the fermentation. A passable example of this beer is relatively easy to do but a great example is harder. I think that this style almost demands temperature control as the yeast flavors can be controlled to a large extent depending on how you set the fermentation parameters. I use 70% wheat malt with pilsner malt and just a little specialty grain in my heffe. I also do a double decoction because I really think that it makes a big difference to the mouthfeel as well as generating some interesting malt flavor however, many would disagree with that. By the way, if a stuck mash gets to be a problem, I use rice hulls and they are very effective.

British and American wheat ales are by far the easiest to make and I would recommend one of them for a newer all grain brewer. Typically, the proportion of malted wheat in the grist is no higher than 50% and typical ale yeasts, handled in the usual manner, are used. Additionally, if you enjoy hoppier beer, this is the style to choose since both the previous styles discussed are hopped very little. Actually, there is quite a bit of latitude when hopping this style as I have tasted good examples which were not bittered all that much as well as some which were quite a bit more agressive. This style is also used over here as the base for fruited beers (not my bag but to each his/her own). Anyhow, hopefully all that is helpful to you when deciding what you want to brew. All three styles are great summer beers and are good quaffing brews, enjoy and good luck.

[Williaaaam]

Thanks for the advise barley water! Yeh i have not been very clear what i want to brew as this brew is going to me an experiment and i bought some wheat malt to use with some maris otter in order to produce some wheaty beer i think ill go down the wheat ale you were talking about any advise on what mash temp i should aim for? Ill let you know how the brew goes on friday!