Is it REALLY necessary..?

[Jim]

The jury is still out on the OP.

Are you BS me..? I'm struggling to see what exactly is wrong with my post regarding cleaning and sterilisation, posted in the cleaning and sterilisation forum... or how it could possibly be deemed "inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic", it seems like a perfectly valid question to me.

If this is how y'all welcome new members, then I just don't know.

I thought I was sticking up for you in the face of people calling you a 'troll', but there you go.

It's nice to see someone who doesn't take all the received wisdom at face value (though you may find this particular piece of it is valid - even though you might get away with lax sanitation some of the time).

[DarloDave]

"It's nice to see someone who doesn't take all the received wisdom at face value "

True, but the OP is a bit stupid in disregarding it. If he is such a tighwad that he is not willing to properly sanitise his eqiupment, he will deserve to lose every batch he ever makes imo.

[Jim]

"It's nice to see someone who doesn't take all the received wisdom at face value "

True, but the OP is a bit stupid in disregarding it. If he is such a tighwad that he is not willing to properly sanitise his eqiupment, he will deserve to lose every batch he ever makes imo.

Harsh, but fair.

[DarloDave]

yeah, i thought that after i'd wrote it,

but still, theres thousands of resources (and people on here) on the importance of good sanitation, yet he still chooses to not do it and brew just giving his equipment a rinse.

[kay-jay]

while the threat of an infection is very real i think many brewers do get a bit anal about it and end up spending more time and bleach etc on the process.

deciding whether to abandon the process of sanitising is entirely a personal choice, i have to say here that under no circumstance would i neglect to do at least some basic sanitisation! however it is important to remember that beer has been brewed since gods' dog was a pup and people seemed to manage well enough before the advent of chemical cleaners.

The original poster says he doesn't use bleach in any circumstance, and uses but doesn't like the excessive cost of powdered sanitiser (ritchies i think he said) does he not realise that this is powdered bleach! and that seing as he IS using bleach, he would be better off diluting thin bleach like many of us do???

KJ

[boingy]

Yeah, but think back to a couple of decades ago. The standard sanitisation method then was to use sodium met with a bit of citric acid thrown in (and trying not to breathe too much). It turns out it was a rubbish sanitiser yet worked well enough for brewing. However, there is a bit of a gulf between that and no sanitiser at all.

[lancsSteve]

wit is important to remember that beer has been brewed since gods' dog was a pup and people seemed to manage well enough before the advent of chemical cleaners.

Ever tasted a lambic? 'Acquired' is an understatement! Beer used to be smoked malt and poor sanitation, little or no maturation etc. etc.

But a fast working yeast will swamp infections for a good while and then once it's done its work alcohol and hops are effective at preventing it going getting infected so today's level of super-sterilisation may be a little OTT - depends whether you want to drink after a week or allow it to mature and become great. If the latter sanitisation seems essential

[Wolfy]

however it is important to remember that beer has been brewed since gods' dog was a pup and people seemed to manage well enough before the advent of chemical cleaners.

While that is so very true, what passes for good or even acceptable beer now days, let alone 'beer' that you'd be proud to give your friends/family or enter into a competition is not really the same stuff that was called 'beer' for much of history. When there was no other option but to drink what was brewed at home or at the only 'local' you could walk to, and when beer was often consumed in preference to water since it was more sanitary I'm not sure how much consideration was given to it being good or acceptable, it was just ... beer.

Now that we have isolated single strains of yeast, can select good quality hops and malt, and can adjust our water chemistry as required, there is no reason not to do everything we can, including using appropriate sanitation products and procedures to produce the best beer we can.

[DarloDave]

If you look at historical records of breweries analysis of beer, you will find that 95% of analyses describe the quality of the beer being at least "poor" . So I dont buy the "beer has always been made without proper sanitation etc etc" argument

[adm]

I'll just give everything a scrub with a brillo pad and a couple of rinses straight out of the hot tap.

Well.....I sure as hell wouldn't clean any plastic with a brillo pad. It'll scratch the feck out of it and create perfect hidey holes for bacteria. At least use a microfibre cloth or white (not green) scrubby thing to clean it with. Plastic scratches really easily.

[damon8000]

In DJ's after a ferment, I give 'em a good rinse, then leave them soaking overnight in youngs' sterilizer (1 tsp, disolved in warm water, filled up to the brim). Then I empty that out, give it a good swill in clean water - job done.

In King Keg's, I rinse them out to get rid of the majority of yeast etc, then fill it to the brim with warm water, with 4 tsp of sterilizer in it. Give it a good scrub-out and rinse the next day, then take it to bits (float out, tap out, etc - put them in a separate bowl of water with Steri in). Then put 4 tsb of steri in with warm water, put the lid on the Keg, and give it a shake every now and again over the space of an hour or so.

I did try thin bleach once, but it took ages to get rid of the bleach smell.

Theoretically, scalding-hot water should kill all germs, but it needs to stay in contact with the surface for a while to do this, and by the time it takes to boil 40 pints of hot water to clean out a King Keg this way, it obviously would've cooled down too much...

[lancsSteve]

Theoretically, scalding-hot water should kill all germs, but it needs to stay in contact with the surface for a while to do this, and by the time it takes to boil 40 pints of hot water to clean out a King Keg this way, it obviously would've cooled down too much...

My mate used boiling water in a 'beta bottle' fermenter whcih promptly melted and distorted and is now unusable...

[micmacmoc]

I don't bother with bottles, its honestly a waste of time and several hundred pints in I have'nt had a bad 'un. That said I wash them out after drinking them, leave hot clean water in them, rinse in hot again the next day and then again before bottling so its not much time, just laziness! I'm sure that as long as your boiler is free of lumps of muck just a quick boil with the lid on is enough. I do this and scrub the elemnts and barrel with a nylon brush. So far so good. the stains on my poly boiler are starting to annoy me just aesthetically so maybe I'll bleach soon. After a stout brew of course.
Now the troll bit:

You're all thick stinking numpties and I'm best, nah nah de nah nah!
silliness really is'nt it?

Relax, have a pint and put your feet up.

[gnorwebthgimi]

I think brewers are too anal about sanitisation. No without good reason but here is something I would like to point out:

Before plastics and metals were used to packages the majority of beer it was stored in oak casks, which breath and allow bacteria in!

What about lambics, other deliberately infected beers and spontaneous fermentation?

Infection is a fact of brewing and sanitation helps to control the issue not remove it. You don't need to go over the top with sterilisation if you are willing to live with the increased risk of an infection that you can detect in your beer.

Even with the highest amount of sterilisation you are unlikely to even come close to ruling out infection but you should take "appropriate" measures to mitigate the risk that an infection will spoil your brew. The point I am making is that some infection is acceptable so long as it doesn't effect the quality of the beer, which in other words means you don't notice it!

I imagine that the only liquids that are 100% free from infection are the ones under the sink that are used to sterilise.

[Dr. Dextrin]

Good thread. I tend to sanitise these days as I feel guilty if I don't (I think of all those voices saying "told you so" if I got an infected brew). But many years ago I didn't bother and just used the hot tap method. Is my beer any less infected now than it was? Well no actually, as far as I'm able to tell I've never had an infected brew using either method.

OTOH, some brewers seem to get their beer infected all the time no matter how thoroughly they sanitise.

So I reckon sanitising or not isn't the real issue. Infected beer mostly just depends on who you are.