My Citra hops turned up this morning, so I'm thinking about an all Citra IIP. I was considering a Citra/Amarillo mix, but I think as I've never tried the Citra before I'll give it a go on it's own.
Here's my first draft for 23L:
Grist:
5Kg UK lager Malt base (or maybe MO Pale, or maybe a 50/50 mix)
1Kg Munich Malt for additional flavour
1Kg UK Flaked Oats for silkiness and mouthfeel
0.5Kg CaraMunch for more malty goodness
0.2Kg Wheat Malt for head retention
0.5Kg plain white sugar at end of boil to dry it out a bit and boost ABV
Should come out around 1080 and end up around 9.5% ABV or so
This is more or less the Stateside IPA grist, with a tad of wheat and the sugar to kick it up a gear
(Maybe a Kg of sugar, and knock the other malts down a bit....?)
Hops:
US Citra 13.4% AA (Pellets)
30g FWH - 38 IBU
50g 15 mins - 29.4 IBU
40g 10 mins - 17.2 IBU
30g 5 mins - 7.1 IBU
25g Flame Out - 0 IBU
25g Dry Hop - 0 IBU [EDIT: 50g Dry Hops!]
Hop schedule chosen for the maximum Citra experience
Around 90 IBU
Yeast will probably be WLP001. 2L starter or so...
Water treatment for Dry Pale Ale from GW's water calculator
Mash at 64C, ferment at 18C
Waddaya reckon?
Yankee B4stard IIPA
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adm
Yankee B4stard IIPA
Last edited by adm on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mysterio
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
First thought is you need more dry hops for an IIPA, double at least, although I'm sure you know your own tastes by now and can tailor accordingly.
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adm
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Good point! I originally had 25g each of Amarillo and Citra, and the base recipe had 25g each of Centennial & Cascade. Fixed.
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EccentricDyslexic
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
did u fix it on the OP too adm?
Good for future ref and all that..!
Steve
Good for future ref and all that..!
Steve
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Barley Water
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- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:35 pm
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Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Well, first the disclaimer, I don't do double IPA's, however:
If you want an American IIPA, I would get rid of the oats for sure. I have never had a beer with an OG of 1.080 which I felt was light on either body or mouthfeel. Oats tend to lend sort of a slick feeling to beer and it might be great in stouts but if you want an American interpretation of an IPA, I would counsel leaving that out. Furthermore, our IPA's tend not to be particularly malty (relative to other high gravity beers) since most of them are made using a base of American two row malt which does not have the depth of flavor that the nice British stuff has. Because of that, I would go with the straight lager malt option since I understand you guys can't get your hands on American two row. If you add the Caramunich, try to find the lightest stuff you can. Because of the high initial gravity, you will be fighting to get the terminal gravity low enough to avoid a cloying impression so you really don't need alot. I think adding the sugar is a very good idea as it will tend to help you dry the beer out. You might consider adding it after primary fermentation is well under way just to keep the yeast honest and hard working (sometimes they just eat the easy to digest sugars and give up on the complex ones leaving the beer too sweet). Finally, pitch a big starter and oxigenate like hell, you have a monster beer there and the yeast is going to go through alot just to get the job done.
One thing I have noticed doing just regular American IPA's, you can leave out the crystal malts altogether and use a little of a roasted product, say brown or amber malt. The slight roast component makes for a little bit of complexity and it actually makes the beer taste a little dryer than it really is. That is what Dogfish Head is doing in both their 60 and 90 minute IPA versions (I just love the 60 by the way). Of course, if you want to really let your "freak flag fly", make a black IPA by adding some debittered Carafa malt, it is all the rage on the west coast right now. Anyway, do whatever floats your boat, all this is just my opinion anyway and as my wife would tell you, "what the hell does he know anyway?".
If you want an American IIPA, I would get rid of the oats for sure. I have never had a beer with an OG of 1.080 which I felt was light on either body or mouthfeel. Oats tend to lend sort of a slick feeling to beer and it might be great in stouts but if you want an American interpretation of an IPA, I would counsel leaving that out. Furthermore, our IPA's tend not to be particularly malty (relative to other high gravity beers) since most of them are made using a base of American two row malt which does not have the depth of flavor that the nice British stuff has. Because of that, I would go with the straight lager malt option since I understand you guys can't get your hands on American two row. If you add the Caramunich, try to find the lightest stuff you can. Because of the high initial gravity, you will be fighting to get the terminal gravity low enough to avoid a cloying impression so you really don't need alot. I think adding the sugar is a very good idea as it will tend to help you dry the beer out. You might consider adding it after primary fermentation is well under way just to keep the yeast honest and hard working (sometimes they just eat the easy to digest sugars and give up on the complex ones leaving the beer too sweet). Finally, pitch a big starter and oxigenate like hell, you have a monster beer there and the yeast is going to go through alot just to get the job done.
One thing I have noticed doing just regular American IPA's, you can leave out the crystal malts altogether and use a little of a roasted product, say brown or amber malt. The slight roast component makes for a little bit of complexity and it actually makes the beer taste a little dryer than it really is. That is what Dogfish Head is doing in both their 60 and 90 minute IPA versions (I just love the 60 by the way). Of course, if you want to really let your "freak flag fly", make a black IPA by adding some debittered Carafa malt, it is all the rage on the west coast right now. Anyway, do whatever floats your boat, all this is just my opinion anyway and as my wife would tell you, "what the hell does he know anyway?".
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
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adm
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Thanks BW...erudite and useful as always.
To be honest, trying to get a "real" American IIPA style thing is a bit of a misdirection on my part...this recipe came about from a Danish interpretation of American style IPAs, and then my turbocharging of it. The original was Mikkeller's "Stateside IPA" which to my tastes is an awesome beer. I brewed it from the brewer's recipe a little while ago and it came out great, so I thought I'd use more or less that same grist as a base for this one. (That one was "Yankee IPA"...this one will be its bigger and nastier brother....) Thinking about it, I should probably add more hops as the original recipe was 109 IBU....
I hear you on the cloying thing though...and having just had a rummage around in my malt bins, it appears I don't have any CaraMunch anyway. So it may be 0g CaraMunch and maybe I'll drop the oats to 500g and up the sugar respectively. I'm not really going for a light(ish), trippel type mouthfeel as I want a beer I can chew a little while I sit by the fire this winter but I definitely don't want too much residual sweetness. The oats in the previous one definitely added a certain "Je ne sais quoi" that I'm keen to keep.
I too like the Dogfish Head 60 and 90 - I drank a fair bit of them this summer....I also prefer the 60 to the 90. What I really enjoyed the most though was Pliny the Elder....love that, but not trying to go there for this beer.
On the Dark IPA - I recently made something similar. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32528&hilit=dark+side+IPA This also came out good - and black. I'm not sure I'll do another though...I don't really see the point in darkening up a pale ale for giggles. As a sensory experiment it's interesting but is a bit akin to dying orange juice black.
For the starter, I should really make a plain Pale Ale and then pitch onto the yeast from that, but I'll probably just make up a big starter and use that by itself. I've got 2, 3 and 5L Ernlenmeyer flasks, and a stir plate so the yeast will be very healthy. Oxygenation I do with a paint mixer paddle on a power drill.....so no worries there, although I do hanker after a proper medical/welding oxygen setup.
As for the wife......well, yours sounds just like mine!
To be honest, trying to get a "real" American IIPA style thing is a bit of a misdirection on my part...this recipe came about from a Danish interpretation of American style IPAs, and then my turbocharging of it. The original was Mikkeller's "Stateside IPA" which to my tastes is an awesome beer. I brewed it from the brewer's recipe a little while ago and it came out great, so I thought I'd use more or less that same grist as a base for this one. (That one was "Yankee IPA"...this one will be its bigger and nastier brother....) Thinking about it, I should probably add more hops as the original recipe was 109 IBU....
I hear you on the cloying thing though...and having just had a rummage around in my malt bins, it appears I don't have any CaraMunch anyway. So it may be 0g CaraMunch and maybe I'll drop the oats to 500g and up the sugar respectively. I'm not really going for a light(ish), trippel type mouthfeel as I want a beer I can chew a little while I sit by the fire this winter but I definitely don't want too much residual sweetness. The oats in the previous one definitely added a certain "Je ne sais quoi" that I'm keen to keep.
I too like the Dogfish Head 60 and 90 - I drank a fair bit of them this summer....I also prefer the 60 to the 90. What I really enjoyed the most though was Pliny the Elder....love that, but not trying to go there for this beer.
On the Dark IPA - I recently made something similar. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32528&hilit=dark+side+IPA This also came out good - and black. I'm not sure I'll do another though...I don't really see the point in darkening up a pale ale for giggles. As a sensory experiment it's interesting but is a bit akin to dying orange juice black.
For the starter, I should really make a plain Pale Ale and then pitch onto the yeast from that, but I'll probably just make up a big starter and use that by itself. I've got 2, 3 and 5L Ernlenmeyer flasks, and a stir plate so the yeast will be very healthy. Oxygenation I do with a paint mixer paddle on a power drill.....so no worries there, although I do hanker after a proper medical/welding oxygen setup.
As for the wife......well, yours sounds just like mine!
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Barley Water
- Under the Table
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:35 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Ok, so what you guys are really doing is coming up with your own new style, Danish IIPA. I think it's always a good thing when you experiment, that's how good new stuff is born. I did however come up with another idea you might wish to try, how about toasting the oats in the oven? If you are lucky, you will end up with just a touch of nut flavor from the toasting and maybe just a bit of aroma also although the hops may completely overwhelm that. Anyhow, carry on and good luck.
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
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adm
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Viking IIPA !
Isn't it also contended that the Vikings discovered America? In which case, American hops in Danish IIPA could be historically accurate, if somewhat tenuous....
Toasted oats might work......I've also got some Golden Naked Oats in which would be nice toasted.
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Barley Water
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Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
I think those guys originally brewed mead (is not Valhalla really just a mead hall for Vikings killed in action?). Perhaps that would suggest adding honey rather than sugar?
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
-
WishboneBrewery
- CBA Prizewinner 2010
- Posts: 7874
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:06 pm
- Location: Keighley, West Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
If we're talking vikings!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker would make a good name for it 
I dare say my tomorrows brewday Malt bill will be something along the lines of that Mikkeller recipe but I forgot to grab a load of hops from work so the hopping will be somewhat different to the Stateside IPA, maybe some Chinook, Ahtanum, Mittlefruh.
I dare say my tomorrows brewday Malt bill will be something along the lines of that Mikkeller recipe but I forgot to grab a load of hops from work so the hopping will be somewhat different to the Stateside IPA, maybe some Chinook, Ahtanum, Mittlefruh.
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lupulin
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
I love it! VPA.adm wrote:
Viking IIPA !
Isn't it also contended that the Vikings discovered America? In which case, American hops in Danish IIPA could be historically accurate, if somewhat tenuous....
I have nothing else to add to what's already been said other than that citra hops are delicious and I think this sounds good with all citra.
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adm
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
So I was thinking about brewing this beer tomorrow, but I want a big yeast starter and I've only got dried 05 and 04 in house.....so I think I'm going to do an all Citra "standard" Pale Ale - maybe just MO and Munich, 50 IBU or so with Citra and US-05, then when that's fermented out use the 05 yeast cake to pitch the bigger beer onto....
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mysterio
Re: Yankee B4stard IIPA
Sounds good. Some comments on the NikoBrew website say to use Citra judiciously because it is quite intense, it might be worth using it sparingly for the first time?