Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier Clone?

[Walrus81]

Hello,

After a break from HB about 2 months I am looking for a new recipe. I have just returned from Cologne and now have a love for Geffal Kolsch and Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier. I have done a search for recipes for both and there seems to be quite a lot of info for Kolsch. I just need to read through it.

I do not seem to be able to find any info on Paulaner Hefe-Weissbier does anyone have any recipes or tips for this type of brew or the Geffal Koslch.

Many thanks.

[Wolfy]

This is what I did for the last Weizen I made: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... t&p=496897
But I'm not sure how well it matches Paulaner , but the basic 'style' is usually very simple; 50% Pils and Wheat malt, and the right yeast are really all you need.
(I couldn't re-culture the yeast from Paulaner, so I used Wy3068).

There is also a huge thread on HBT here, that you may like to read.

[Walrus81]

Ok,

Thanks for the info. From that webiste the recipe is:

Beer: Paulaner Hefe Weizen
Type: Extract w/grain
Size: 5.25 gallons

Water: 4 gals PUR filtered tap water placed in freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing.
Grain: 4 oz. Briess Munich Malt 6-row
Steep: Crush malt. Steep in ½ gal water at 150F for 20 mins. Sparge with 1 gal 150F water.
Boil time: 60 minutes

Malt:

1 lb. Extra Light DME
5 lb. Wheat DME

Hops: .5 oz (½ oz.) Hallertau Hersbrucker (6% AA) for 60 mins = 3%AA

Yeast: Starter is made of 2nd generation yeast. It is a mixture of WLP351 and 3068 Bavarian Weizen yeast and 1 baby food jar of WLP351.

My question is this, I want to do it as AG, what are the best substitutes for the DME abnd quantities.

Many thanks!

[Hamish]

Just brewed a pretty tasty Weissbier, not sure how it compares to Paulaner but I reckon it tastes similar to Kaltenberg Prinzregent Luitpold.

Pale Malt 2280 grams 43%
Wheat Malt 2650 grams 50%
Carapils 370 grams 7%

Hallertauer Hersbrucker 45 grams 3.2% 90 minutes

WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.012
Alcohol Content: 5.2% ABV
Total Liquor: 33.6 Litres
Mash Liquor: 13.3 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 75%
Bitterness: 15 EBU
Colour: 10 EBC

I'd say a blow off tube is essential with Weihenstephaner yeast.

[dave-o]

Yes, Paulaner has a bit more colour and maltiness than most wiezens, so i wouldn't be suprised if it had a bit of Munich in it.

[Barley Water]

When I make weizen, I use 70% malted wheat, German pils malt and a bit of Munich malt. I then decoct the hell out of the whole thing 'cause you just ain't winning any contests around here with wheat beer unless you decoct. I did however learn something else recently (both through personal observation and information in the new wheat beer book). Never use the second generation of weizen yeast, just throw the stuff in there straight from the tube (my weapon of choice is WLP300). You will be under pitching which forces the yeast to multiply and throw off a bunch of those nice esters and phenols (and I don't oxigenate either). Last year, I made a heffe then did a dunkel weizen two weeks later using yeast from the first fermentation. The heffe won a second in a very big contest over here (my third year in a row to win a metal with German wheat beer but never a first damn it). The dunkel however did nothing and the problem with it was that there was not enough nice wheat beer esters and phenols. The fermenation conditions were essentially the same except as noted, I repitched the yeast from the heffe batch. I am going to try it again this year, right before the contest ('cause wheat beer is best fresh) I will brew a heffe and a dunkel weizen one after the other but use two different tubes of yeast. By the way, the whole deal with German wheat beer is temperature control. I like to ferment at 68F because I want bananna (similar to Pauliner's example) but if you want more clove, go a bit lower. This style is fun to brew, it is amazing how much you can control the flavor my messing around with the various brewing variables.

[leigh1919]

One thing I will say is - Use the liquid yeasts. Weiss is one that I don't think you can do with dried. (well, I've not had much luck, anyway).

[Hamish]

One thing I will say is - Use the liquid yeasts. Weiss is one that I don't think you can do with dried. (well, I've not had much luck, anyway).

I've used Danstar Munich in the past & at the time was pleased with the results. However, the Wyeast 3068 makes a much much better brew.

[Walrus81]

Many thanks for all the info.

decoct the hell out of the whole thing

What the hell is the act of decocting?

Cheers.

[Barley Water]

A decoction is when you pull a portion of the grist out of your mash tun and boil it. Back in the day, before thermometers, the German's used this method to get the mash to the temperature needed for conversion. Useful if you make beer in a vessel which can not be directly heated. Anyway, besides heating the mash, it generates melonoidin reactions as you would expect and also seems to effect the mouthfeel of the finished beer as well as giving a better extraction rate. It will for sure increase the lenght of your brewday and many on this board will argue that it is a big waste of time. For some reason, most really good weiss biers winning metals in the competitions over here are decocted. Of all the styles, weiss biers seem to benefit from this treatment the most in my opinion. The commercial brewers are getting away from this because it takes a long time and is also inefficient from an energy standpoint. It is also helpful if you are using malts which are not well modified, you can look at it as sort of an extension of the malting process. The reason British brewers generally use single infusion mashing is because your malts are very well modified and so this step is not needed. I generally decoct all my German beers, I have done it so many times now that really it is not that big a deal. Besides being a traditional method, you will get some subtle flavors which in my opinion you can not just purchase from the maltster. Since I enter many of my beers in competitions, I am always looking for something just a little different to make my beers stand out for the judges.

[Hamish]

Interesting, a decoction mash is something I might try but it does sound a bit of a palaver.

I presume you start the mash at a lower temperature and then raise it but in how many steps? In a 5kg grain 12.5 litre liqour (excuse the Napoleon measures) mash for example how much would you draw off?.

[Walrus81]

Ok,

So I might do well to add a Iblow off however this will probably be fermented in a bucket.
I will use liquid yeast, however still a little confused about converting the Extract to AG.

1 lb Pale Malt
5 lb Wheat Malt
4oz of munich malt.

Keep hops as is. Steep grains at the higher end to retain sweetness 65 degs or so.

Any more ideas?

[Barley Water]

Well, just looking at your forumulation I would say you have around 80% wheat. The most I have ever seen in the brewing books is 70% and probably I would go no higher than that because it will cause sparging problems. As I am sure you have noticed, wheat has no husk so the grain bed can get plugged up since there are no channels created by grain husks for the liquid to run through. Also, wheat has alot of protein which can almost gel up on you adding to the runoff problems. What we do about all that over here is to add rice hulls to the mash. That allows water to permeate the grain bed without plugging and it has no effect on the taste of the finished beer. By the way, the signature flavor of heffe is not so much the wheat as it is the contribution from the yeast. Anything between 50% and 70% wheat will get the job done.

By the way, what volume do you plan to brew? Just off the top of my head, in my system, if I want a 1.050 O.G. beer, I will need just a bit over 10lbs of grain for a 5 gallon batch. You either are doing a smaller volume or you expect really big extraction which frankly, if you are a new all grain brewer, you will likely not get. Many brewing books claim very big extraction rates but I have yet to find a homebrewer that gets anywhere near those lofty goals and I know alot of very talented brewers. Pay attention to your initial gravity, volume of wort produced and weight of grain added so you can calibrate your system for future batches. It is much more important to be consistent batch to batch than get really great extraction rates (in fact if you extract too much you will end up with excess tanins in the beer which will ruin the taste).

Finally, you are going to find that heffe yeast is the most active strain you will ever use. I end up cleaning out my fermentation frig every year after doing wheat beers, they end up blowing yeast all over the inside of the frig. I highly recommend using a blow off tube to avoid my fate. As I mentioned in a previous post, this style is all about the yeast and how you handle it. Anyway, good luck, let us know how it turns out.

[Walrus81]

I will probably make my own recipe using about 70% wheat 30% pilsner or pale malt.

Still use hallertau hops and specific yeast.

Cheers

[Zapp Brannigan]

A bit of munich in place of some of the pilsner never hurts.