:)

[jeremy]

...
My question is about browning of the juice during the pulping and pressing stages.
...

It's just the tannins oxidising, it happens

It won't affect the cider in any way, it starts murky brown (somebody described it "like mud") and ends up a fairly normal cider colour. Milling the apples and pressing quickly can help to reduce it.

Thanks for that. It means that topping up my half-full demijohns will not be throwing good juice after bad!

[Joe90]

Hi, This will be my first attempt at cider this year, i have now collected 2 trees worth of Pears which i plan on pressing this week. I've also got a couple of apple trees in the field next to my house one of which could well be cider apples so i shall be giving these a go next week too

A couple of questions for you guys, i really want to try to produce the most natural cider or perry as possible and was planning on adding no Campden tablets, yeast or sugar and relying on the wild yeasts and sugars to do the work. What are the pros and cons of this and what risks are there in not killing off the wild yeasts and using a bought one?

Not sure if the pears are perry pears but as far as i'm aware nobody has been able to eat any either by cooking, boiling ect, i tried one last week, they are rock hard and fibrous but not sour. So the other question is will the natural method still work ok if they are not perry pears?

What type of material is best for the pressing? Muslin? or is that too fine?

Thanks for any help in advance and i promise to keep you all updated with how it goes.

[beermonsta]

[probably wise to follow my link earlier to my pressing day so this all makes sense )
Hi Joe, although I'm fairly new to cider pressing I can tell you of my experiences. For a 100% natural ferment you will probably find no problems in reality although I would advise making sure everything is well sanitised for the press (i.e. the scratter device, the press itself, the collection buckets, the FV etc) so to limit the amount of unnatural yeast/bacteria which could spoil the juice. Also make sure you give the apples a wash before hand, and cut out any major rotted parts. Most of the juice that was pressed a couple of weeks earlier had been kept in pop bottles and had started to ferment naturally anyway - this is what I used for my natural ferment carboy. In fact I had a couple of bottles after the main press as shown in the pictures/videos and they started naturally about a week or two later.
I decided to do a split batch. One is about 25 litres natural and one is 50 litres campdened & added yeast to compare. The natural one is still fermenting but it is slow and steady, the big carboy finished the main ferment a week ago and is starting to clear up so I will be considering to rack it off the lees soon.

For the perry question, like with cider the type of apple or pear will still produce cider but the flavours will be subtly different depending upon what you use. Either way I reckon it would be fine. I would be more worried if your pears are not ripe as this means they probably contain far less fermentable juice than desirable. You could try leaving them to ripen a bit more before pressing, although I read somewhere that pears go from hard to ripe to rotting very rapidly - so keep checking them daily.

For pressing material I used IKEA's curtain net as recommended previously - it was about £3 for a "pair" ( ) of curtains - this was more than enough to cut up - in fact I doubled up - the weave was perfect, trapping the pulp but letting all the juice out. They were more than strong enough too.

good luck with your press. By the sounds of it get plenty of buckets - I was amazed how much juice one tree could produce!!
Ben

[Trunky]

[Joe90]

Thanks for all the info chaps lots of helpful stuff . Beermonsta, thanks for the tips on sterilizing everything well, i in fact sterilized all the Dj's, airlock, pulping bucket, press ect tonight. The pears have been picked for a week now and they are still hard i've cut a few open and they are still good in the middle so i'm not too worried about them rotting yet. One thing i did notice was they went brown quite quickly so i guess they are high in tannins???. I'm pulping them tomorrow and going to leave them overnight as you have said Trunky If the juice doesn't start fermenting after a week do you think i should add some yeast??. Thanks for all your help i will keep you updated with my results.

[beermonsta]

s'ok your welcome
I doubt the natural yeasts would have built up (multiplied) enough to have begun fermenting after just one week. two weeks would be better. But that's where the gamble is...as the longer you leave it the more chance other nasties (bacteria etc) can get a hold and ruin it. If your intent on going natural then be prepared to take a risk, I suspect you will be fine though. Or if your at all nervous or worried then go the campden / added yeast route as a insurance policy.
They only way I can think of to "not have all your eggs in one basket" is to, well, not have all your perry juice in one container Try storing it in 2l ir 5l pop bottles/water bottles so if one batch goes bad, the others will be fine. You should then be able to watch and observe for nasties or building up of pressure which indicates the natural fermentation is under way. At this point you could combine them all in one FV if everything is fine.
Best of luck, keep us posted. Pictures & videos are good remember
BEn

[Trunky]

[jason123]

I've ended up with only a half attempt at cider now. An old neighbour had a load of apples on a tree and I casually mentioned i could make some cider with that.

A couple of weeks later and i was back at his house pressing crudely and got about 10litres of juice. To this was added 50litres of Lidl AJ and 3 packs of youngs cider yeast. No campdens were added. The ferment started off quickly but a week or so later my old neighbour reported an immense smell of vinegar. A week or so later still and he reports that the smell has gone and it now smells of nice cider again.

Can anybody give me a clue as to WTF's going on with it?

I hope it isn't ruined but I live over 100miles away now and can't get down there for another few weeks to see for myself.

[beermonsta]

Hmmmm, Comparing the smell of my two, the campdened/added yeast smelt appely/alcholic but not offensive where as the natural had, as it speeded up in fermentation a more tang to it's smell, more sulphury perhaps vinegary with the development of alcohol - not as pleasent. Obviously when fermentation died down the smells abated (oooh look at me with a big word on a friday night ). Still yet to transfer them both so I can't comment on flavour but I'm sure they will be fine. I personally wouldn't worry as I bet all is fine.

[JontyR]

This is a cracking thread chaps - thanks very much, as always I'm learning loads. I had my 1st attempt at cider this year - two gallons from my dads' apple trees and a gallon of perry from my own pear tree. I used a juicer as it was a fairly spur of the moment thing after reading this thread but I'll be definately knocking a press up for next year and be on the blag for spare apples from wherever I can get them.

Thanks again

[beermonsta]

well while your on the blag for spare apples I'll be on the blag for a spare drink - I must pass skipton several times a year - in fact I pop in to a chippy in Skipton once a year whilst on Duke of Edinburgh duty!
I'll be looking to make one of those scrattering devices you see on youtube for next year. Can't wait

[JontyR]

well while your on the blag for spare apples I'll be on the blag for a spare drink - I must pass skipton several times a year - in fact I pop in to a chippy in Skipton once a year whilst on Duke of Edinburgh duty!
I'll be looking to make one of those scrattering devices you see on youtube for next year. Can't wait

Any time you're passing, you're more than welcome - just let me sort that beer engine out first

[Trunky]

[jason123]

Thanks for that reassurance Trunky.

I'm so glad he didn't pour it down the drain. When he first reported the vinegar smell, I said it'd be ruined and only good for flushing the drains with.

[Joe90]

Ok pressed the perry the other night, i started off using one of those small barrel style fruit press things and soon realized it was gonna take all day so had to go out and knock up a solid wooden frame and use a 2 ton bottle jack. It only took a couple of hours and got a couple of gallons of juice out of the hardest pears i've ever seen i've put them in Dj's under airlocks and the sg was only 1.042.... is this too low? The only other problem is there is a lot of sediment, it seemed to settle on the bottom at first but now it is starting to float up to the top and gather in the neck of the Dj. Is this normal? I wasn't sure whether i should rack it off at this early stage as i wondered if i removed the sediment then i may remove the wild yeasts?? Hope somebody can help Gonna do 2 apple trees this week, hoping to get a bit more juice this time though so fingers crossed.