Sanitising for newbies!

[dean_wales]

Hello,

I am brewing 5 gall batches more regularily now and with more bits of gear and so sanitising is becoming more of an issue. I bottle condition everything. I have also used a bit of the VWP powder as Jim does recently.

I have historically used Sodium Metabisulphate (as my old man told me too) but am learning its not that great! I do like the lack of ingredients though and the fact that it seems to be very foodsafe.

Thing is I am a serious organic tree hugging greenie and using loads of chemicals doesnt sit well with me. I would prefer to use something with as few ingredients as possible, is totally foodsafe and degrades easily and safely when sent down the sink. Bottom line is though that it must be cheap and quick and easy to use on brewdays and effective enough to be worthwhile!

Suggestions or pro/cons opinions on the following welcome?

Sodium Metabisulphate
Camden Tablets
Cheapo high street liquid bleach
Cheapo high street bleaches
Alkaline, chlorine based, non-caustic powder detergents
StarSan
Peracetic Acid
AMS CRS Carbonate Reducing Solution
Any other suggested methods/products

I have no dishwasher by the way. At least she gets angry when I call her that

I love the idea and ease of no rinse solutions for all those bl**dy bottles but I dont like the idea of residues is my drinks and that of my partner who is breastfeeding and has the occassional shandies!

Thanks,

Dean.

[pas8280]

I have been using cheap thin own brand supermarket bleach diluted down more or less from the off, the bottles get left overnight in fermentation buckets filled with the solution and given 3 x rinses with cold tap water before bottling, the fermenters get the same treatment it all works for me
Paul

[Kev888]

Heat is a very complete sanitiser - in fact a sterilizer if used correctly. You can bake bottles in the oven, things can be immersed in boiling water and in some cases you can pour boiling water over things - the main limitation being that they can stand the heat of course. Personally i like to use starsan - not a nice chemical undiluted but its no-rinse in normal dilutions and you can squirt it on stuff instead of filling the whole FV or whatever - meaning its very economical and you don't pour gallons of it down the drain after every use.

For cleaning then I tend to use the thin bleach, but an ecover product sounds like it may fit in with your philosophy: Here its just sodium percarbonate; i don't know how it compares with the oxy stain removers people use for cleaning power, but I believe its one of the key ingredients and has reasonable planet-saving credentials. I've tried it in the past and it seemed to be at least as good and I felt somewhat better than soda chrystals, which was my main fall back for when bleach failed.

Cheers
kev

[Redimpz]

What dilution ratios are we talking about with the thin supermarket bleach?

[Kev888]

its a bit imprecise as they generally don't tell you the exact strength of the bleach, but I go with 10ml thin bleach per L of water for sanitising and 50ml per L for cleaning.

Cheers
Kev

[dean_wales]

Im quite interested in using the Ecover bleach as it is very pure and I support the company. A very good suggestion that I hadnt though about. It might be a tad dear but isnt too bad.

Could it be used as both a cleaner and sanitiser or just for cleaning bottles?

Heat is interesting - I wonder how many bottles I could fit stacked in the oven on their side. I would worry about burn drying stains onto the bottles though? I presume its the same as for jam jars - into a cold oven set to 100c and switch on, once up to temperature allow 5mins and then switch off. Allow to cool for say an hour and then whip em ut and bottle?

Where would be the cheapest place to get a small amount of starsan online for use in fermentors etc when the above doesnt work?

Im interested in the Peracetic Acid and AMS CRS options too, I like the purity but also the fact that I can get them delivered with my maltmiller delivery?!?!

Thanks,

Dean.

[maxashton]

Hi Dean,

If you're interested in being environmentally friendly, StarSan is probably your best bet. Heat is great, but a bit impractical for large quantities of bottles imo. StarSan (And most of the products made by the company that makes it) seems to have been developed to be environmentally friendly.

There's a famous demo done by the chemist that invented it whereby he drinks the stuff, so it's reasonably safe. It foams up in use, and the foam will float above your brew as it's racked into vessels (be they bottles or fermentors), which personally makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Cheers,

Max

[dean_wales]

You almost had me convinced about StarSanb until the foam bit! I am just not keen on no rinse sanitisers I think.

Is starsan effective if you rinse with boiling/ed water after?

After some late night googling Im decided on the Ecover bleach for all cleaning and just need to decide on sanitising now. StarSan isnt a brand name for any of the chemicals discussed above is it?

Dean.

[dean_wales]

PS: Just noticed that the CRS/AMS thing is not a sanitiser but something for altering water chemistry.

The other is made up of Peracetic acid, water, acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide. Apparently is is totally biodegradable, extremely strong and no rinse.

Cheap as well considering its £5 for enough to make 12.5 litres of it at full strength for use in the sprey bottles.

I wonder if it can be used for soaking? Anyone know?

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Hold up :

http://www.farmchem.co.uk/hppa-br5-kgs-216-p.asp

That would work out very very cheap!

Dean.

[maxashton]

Again, the foam is harmless, flavourless, and has no mechanical impact on the beer.

Not to mention many of us use it

Star San is the product, the company is Five Star Chemicals. They make loads of other products, and almost all of them if not all are designed for rapid biodegradability.

Not sure about the ecover bleach. It's just sodium percarbonate, which you can get in a form designed for brewing in the form of chemipro oxi.

Percarbonate by itself isn't really an effective sanitizer, but it is pretty good for keeping your whites white.

If you really don't like no-rinse sanitizers, and the massive savings in wastewater they provide, thin bleach at 5% is your best bet. I use that for intense soak cleaning, sometimes with a bit of caustic if something's really gotten grubby.

Peracetic is great stuff, but a bit dangerous if mishandled. It will also corrode metal fixtures, especially copper!

Bootnote: Starsan breaks down into stuff yeast can eat, if i remember rightly!

[lancsSteve]

You almost had me convinced about StarSanb until the foam bit! I am just not keen on no rinse sanitisers I think.

Is starsan effective if you rinse with boiling/ed water after?

The foam breaks down into a flavourless/colourless residue which is actually edible by yeast so it's perfect. No rinse is more sanitary than rinsing.

I just want to know if starsan is safe to be used on babies bottles and breast pumps? Waiting 2 hours for milton is a PITA.

Personally I use wilkos oxy or soda crystals to clean and star san to sanitise and love the combo.

[maxashton]

It's not listed on the datasheet or the intended use, but it seems pretty safe.
This being said, babies are a bit more precious than beer (No, really!), so I wouldn't take any risks.

I'd buy an autoclave.

[lancsSteve]

It's not listed on the datasheet or the intended use, but it seems pretty safe.

What I thought... Will have to look for this drinking it video!

This being said, babies are a bit more precious than beer (No, really!), so I wouldn't take any risks.

Hmmm yeah... I must say I'm MUCH more confident at sanitisation than my wife - transferable skills and all eh!

I'd buy an autoclave.

LOL - would love to see what the plastic bottles would do in that...

[dean_wales]

Ahh the corosion factor, didnt think of that.

Maybe I will have to cave in on the StarSan but Ecover for cleaning at least.

Now where the hell do you get the stuff from cheaply????

Dean.