St Austell 'Proper Job'

[tubthumper]

Cheers for the info Befuggled. Really appreciate you keeping us up to date. Would you believe I haven't tasted the stuff yet? Can't find it anywhere! Will brew a good clone regardless though as everyone seems to love it.

The stuff in M&S called cornish ale is proper job ( according to someone on another site)
worth having a look

[befuggled]

My latest update:

M&S Cornish is not Proper Job, but it is similar.
Firstly, it is 5% and not 5.5% (bottled that is, not PJ on draught).
In our opinion, M&S has much less aroma as in smell, and is less "smooth".

I have just compared my 4th and 5th attempts with bottled PJ and M&S (with a little assistance!)
No 4 had a little carapils and crystal - somewhat too sweet and full bodied, colour wrong but aroma quite close.
No 5 had just carapils - not really detectable, I think it added a bit of body, colour very close to PJ and M&S.
I now feel that PM only is the closest, maybe just a little carapils or mash at 68C. No crystal or wheat needed.

No 4 had the closest aroma, No 5 clearly had far too many steep hops, but it is mellowing very nicely - not PJ but even more IPA-ish.
I think I am missing some of the chinook's grapefruit in the final hop balance, so I am going to try some in the steep.
The use of US-05 instead of reclaim seemed to make little difference.

So attempt 6 brews on Tuesday (I hope):
50L, 75% eff, start 1.056, finish 1.013, 9EBC, 45EBU, PJ reclaimed yeast.
PM 12500gms
Chinook 12.7 55 90
Willamette 6.7 45 10
Cascade 6.3 45 10
Willamette 6.7 55 5
Willamette 6.7 55 0
Cascade 6.3 55 0
Chinook 12.7 30 0

I intend to steep at flameout for 15 minutes, with the boiler lid sealed, then whirlpool cool as fast as poss to 25C.

As always, comments and/or suggestions gratefully received!
Cooldad and Rick-Huggins, how did you get on? Floydmeddler - have you done any yet?

I still have a single bottle of my 2nd attempt and a minikeg of my first, I am hoarding these for a comparison once 6 is ready. No 3 was too far out to be worth considering.

[Mauri]

I have just tried half a pint of my latest attempt and despite it being young it tastes really good. For this one I added about 5% Munich. I have not done a side by side comparison with the real PJ but the munich tastes good in there and leaves some nice sweetness. I like it ..... a lot. More than my previous attempt with pale malt only. I think befuggled is absolutely right about the yeast. St Austell yeast is, in my opinion, pretty neutral so Nottingham or US05 are just fine (I used Nottingham in my latest attempt). I think next time I will not bother with Willamette at flame out because
a) they disappear because cascade completely overpowers them
b) I don't really like them (I had some at 0 minutes in a tribute clone, together with some bobek, and just I do not like what they smell like, although they are OK for flavour)
The idea of some Chinook at flame out sounds interesting.

[weiht]

I love how munich really adds to my beers... Even with my lagers, i add in some vienna and munich malts

[befuggled]

Hello there Mauri and Weiht.
My reasons for avoiding Munich this time are: 1) It only says Maris Otter on the bottle and 2) The colour I get with PM only is spot on.
When I have added caramalt or crystal, it has been too dark, so I tried carapils for the sweetness without colour (also higher mash temps).

Do either of you find that the Munich makes it significantly darker? Beer Engine says that 5% Munich will take it from 9 to 11 EBC.

At this point, I am trying to get as close to bottled PJ as I can. You both recommend Munich and Mauri does not really like Willamette (I seem to remember this from before!). I agree that Munich adds body and taste, I have used it in quite large proportions in three other IPAs and they are excellent. (I have also used 30% Vienna in a Largrrr which is showing good promise...)

If Munich makes Proper Job "right", then that is fine, I will have achieved an ambition, if it makes it "better" then that is what I will do in the future once I feel I have got close enough (just call me god )

What do you think Gents? - add the Munich and try to get closer, maybe a bit darker? or leave it out this time and just see what the extra Chinook does?

[weiht]

Hi mate, i havent done the proper job yet as i have yet to taste them. I used munich in my tribute as well as recent lager i brewed. YES, it does make the beer considerably darker than not using, so maybe u may want to avoid an agressive boil... For that reason, I have to alter my lager recipe and substitute half my munich bill with vienna malt, just so it wont turn out too dark for a lager. It does add a darker colour, but not as much as a crystal 60 imo. In recent TTL brew, i used about 7-8% crystal 60 and the rest of the grit was MO, and it turned out darker than my tribute with 20% munich.

Im not too particular at this pt in time about my beer's appearance, and am more particular about nailling the taste. Im not sure whether munich will bring it closer to the real PJ, but im just liking the combination of pale malt and munich. I think u would be safe using it at 5%, it shldnt make it too dark but its just my opinion

[Mauri]

you people are such a bad influence on me. I had to get this comparison done, which means I will have to drink those glasses of beer and it's at least 1 hour to beer o'clock yet.
On the left a 100% pale malt Punk-ish IPA; on the right the PJ with 5% Munich. Apart from the fact that the PJ has not dropped bright quite yet (many of my beers seem to be taking ages to clear lately) the difference in colour is negligible.

[befuggled]

Moi - a bad influence?
It's one minute to six and I haven't started yet!
(But I have got five lined up ready to compare, my own Simcoe, Amarillo and Columbus APA/IPAs, along with Palmer's 200 and Dorset Gold, just for QA purposes you understand...)

The pair of you have convinced me!! - 5% Munich it will be, but I am a day behind - here's hoping for a Wednesday Brew!

Any further postings from me tonight ought to be ignored on the grounds of reduced responsibility.....

[weiht]

Couldn't get chinook so I replace it with magnum.

Maris otter 5kg
Munich 300g

Magnum 15g 60 mins
Willamette 30g 15 mins
Cascade 30g 10 mins
Willamette 30g 5 mins
Cascade 50g 80c steep for 20 mins
Nottingham ale yeast

This is the most amt of hops I ever used into a 23l batch lol.

[weiht]

The willamette was over powered by the aroma of cascades. Magnum altho nice, just didn't sit right in this recipe.

[simple one]

Anyone got an update on this recipe? I have been impressed by this bottle conditioned beer.

Time to fire up the boiler and try and recreate this beauty.

Thanks in advance.

[Buckie Brewer]

They sell a St Austell 'Proper Job' recipe pack here which they claim was reviewed/judged by the creator.

All the ingredients and instructions required to make the our St Austell Proper Job recipe pack. This is the recipe version of the winning beer in our Proper Job Challenge 2012 as judged by St Austell head brewer and creator of Proper Job Roger Ryman.

[McMullan]

Where's the recipe?

[PeeBee]

... this bottle conditioned beer. ...

"Bottle conditioned". That's what it says on the bottle. And several brewers have used this as reason to culture the bottle yeast for brewing a clone.

But the website says the bottled beer is filtered (and therefore suitable for vegetarians as it didn't contain isenglass). Which might suggest they have to re-pitch the yeast? And it's likely they would repitch with a specialised bottling strain? So is culturing the yeast in the bottles a waste of effort?


I dived into this thread because I thought if might say something about "Cornish Gold" malt; but that's St Austell's Tribute (and others), not Proper Job. I believe Simpson's are to manufacture this "St Austell speciality" and will make it available to the home-brew trade - BrewUK have it listed but out of stock. Will it happen? Has it happened and I missed it? (For those that don't know "Cornish Gold" malt is a base malt, about the colour of the lighter Munich malts).

[Meatymc]

I've been using scavenged PJ yeast on the last few beers without any problems - think the latest sample in the fridge (from my last brew) will be at least 5th generation.

Had intended buying some more and starting afresh but interestingly, but perhaps not surprisingly, the PJ section is always empty when I'm in the local supermarket.