Double IPA recipe

[mysterio]

Mr Nick & Mr Hadley, are these beer names?

From my experience a 100 IBU beer and a 200 IBU beer are completely different kettles of fish.

You could be right, oxidised beta acids, tannins etc all come into play too. I don't know enough about this so i'll be quiet

[pantsmachine]

They are two beers Jubby very kindly sent me last year. They have been in one of the cellars(kitchen cupboard) since then and its time to give them a whirl. Especially as they will be in the mix so to speak with a 200 IBU beer that was bottled only in October. I'll take some photo's and post on this thread if ok with you?

[mysterio]

Yeah of course.

Just got the malt delivered today so this recipe is penciled in for mashing tomorrow ...

[Barley Water]

Well I don't make Imperial IPA's but there is a hell of a lot more going on with hops than just adding bitterness to beer in my opinion. Let's say just for the sake of argument that most humans can not detect bitterness differences over say 100IBUs (which I believe is probably true). Additionally, as the O.G. of the wort rises of course the soluability of the alpha acids goes down as a previous poster mentioned. When you start chucking a ton of hops into a brew though, you will end up with alot of other flavors (some good, some not so much), although the bitterness will not be preceived as going up. I have noticed that you can end up with alot of vegetal type flavors with a bunch of hops hanging around in the beer for an excessive amount of time which is why when I dry hop, I usually pull the beer off the hops after about 10 days or so. Natuarally, all this is personal preference however so what works for me may not get it done at all for somebody else.

Maybe this is just my perception but some of these really highly hoped beer have sort of a macho image surrounding them (see the ad campaign for Stone products for instance). I think the balance of flavor components is what separates the good examples from just beers with too much hop character. For example, I think Stone Arrogant Bastard is sort of a crude tasting product (I guess I am just "not worthy") however I think Double Bastard is much better and the difference is that Double Bastard has a much bigger malt backbone. I also think water chemistry plays a big role in how the hops will come off in any particular brew. In my particular case, I have moderately hard water with both temporary and permenant hardness so I need to be really careful with hops otherwise this get harsh really fast.

[mysterio]

Very good points, I think Stone AB is pretty crude too, but their Ruination is really good.

With that O.G. point, I heard that it's not actually the OG which makes the isomerised alpha acids less soluble but the associated rise in proteins in the wort (that usually comes with higher OGs of course). So adding wheat etc should reduce bitterness too. I think I heard John Palmer come out with that. With that in mind it shouldn't really matter what time I add the sugar.

[196osh]

Good point about the sour thing. But that was more young hops than a bitterness thing. I think it was the hop varieties I have never used Apollo or Summit before.

Also with regards to the IBUs, one thing its very hard to actually get 100IBUs in a beer. IBUs compared to FG is a big thing people overlook, thats why Barleywines at 9% 100IBUs FG 1020 taste less bitter than IIPAs at 100IBUs 9% and an FG of 1010.

This is just from personal experience but I have made beers at 90IBUs and beers at 160IBUs and the difference is minimal imo.

[leedsbrew]

V

With that O.G. point, I heard that it's not actually the OG which makes the isomerised alpha acids less soluble but the associated rise in proteins in the wort (that usually comes with higher OGs of course). So adding wheat etc should reduce bitterness too. I think I heard John Palmer come out with that. With that in mind it shouldn't really matter what time I add the sugar.

Arhhhh beat me too it M! Lol was listening to the BN the other night an just such a topic came up on the Sunday session!

[196osh]

Very good points, I think Stone AB is pretty crude too, but their Ruination is really good.

With that O.G. point, I heard that it's not actually the OG which makes the isomerised alpha acids less soluble but the associated rise in proteins in the wort (that usually comes with higher OGs of course). So adding wheat etc should reduce bitterness too. I think I heard John Palmer come out with that. With that in mind it shouldn't really matter what time I add the sugar.

I heard that too. Might be intresting to brew a 50/50 IPA/wheat beer at say 60 IBUs and the same recipe with just pale malt and see how big a difference it makes.

[mysterio]

I seem to remember a BBR episode where they got a bunch of beers tested at a lab to test the bittering formulae. The wheat one came in significantly lower than calculated.

[196osh]

I seem to remember a BBR episode where they got a bunch of beers tested at a lab to test the bittering formulae. The wheat one came in significantly lower than calculated.

Thats really very interesting, the formulas should really take that into account.

But like those guys were saying on the brewing network, its better that you can look at your system and produce consistant and sort of predictable results. So if you brew a "60 IBU" beer then even if its not 60 IBUs if you think its not bitter enough or too bitter for what you want you can change it.

[mysterio]

There are just two many variables. Graham posted a graph the other day that shows a vigorous boil actually destroys alpha acids compared to a simmer (or something to that effect). Good luck putting boil vigor into a formula, or protein content of wort for that matter.

I use Tinseth which is pretty good apart from a serious limitation - you get 0 IBUs from late hops! I suppose this assumes that hops are added then wort is instantaneously knocked out through a cooler into the FV.

[pantsmachine]

Jubby, thanks again. We really enjoyed last night.

Mr Hadleys
Nice little bit of carbonation
head retention good throughout
Good colour, slight orange hues
Aroma of honey and coconut
Smokey flavour, slightly spicy. Taste like i imagine a classic olde worlde IPA should be
Smokiness abated as beer warmed
Slight chill haze dropped out as beer warmed
A cracking beer which i could drink a fair bit of

Sadly Mr Nick's over enthusiastic carboanation(assume not quite finished fermenting when bottled) lifted the yeast layer off the bottom of the bottle and kind of killed out pleasure on this one. Absolutely love the label!


My own hop paradigm shift IPA
Still overbalanced by the wood chips.
under wood chips are Lemon and a floral bouquet.
Needs another 6 months for the wood to fade in more. Should be just about the time we drink the last few bottles!

Enjoyed sampling these beers and think that Mr Hadleys is a cracker that should be made again!




Clearing nicely as it warmed




Mysterio, good luck with the brew today!

[mysterio]

Love that Mr Nick bottle label, what's the inspiration for that Jubby?

[jubby]

Thanks for the comments Joe. You're right about the carbonation in the Mr Nick's, I can't open any of the bottles without venting a little pressure off over a few hours to avoid fizzing up the yeast, but the corny full of it is good Not much of the Mr Hadley's left now

Mysterio, apologies for hi jacking your thread. The label was inspired by Pete Browns book 'Hop & Glory'. This beer (like the Mr Hadley's IPA, a recipe from Durden Park which won gold medal in paris,1889) was brewed as traditional IPA from the colonial days in East India and the picture on the label which i stole from the internet seemed to fit the beer.

I should have explained earlier that these were names of my beers. I was typing what I was thinking expecting everybody to know what i was on about

[196osh]

Those beers look fantastic. The labelling is top notch.

Mysty I use Tinseth too, no real reason other than thats what the default is.