Ca Plane Belgian Abbey Singel

[chris_reboot]

I've just made something similar with WLP500, which I think is the same strain.
I lagered it out after primary for 3 weeks @ 5C, then added some recultured Duvel yeast for bottling.

great, but I think the Duvel yeast comes through too much.
Think I'd stick to a single yeast next time, but the Duvel yeast is easy to cultivate, and makes a nice foamy starter, which should carry through to the bottle nicely.

[jmc]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the info about the Duvel yeast.

I've top-cropped some of the chimay yeast when it was at its height and I'm planning on adding that when bottling.

Just ordered some Dingemans (Belgian) malt off of Rob at The Malt Miller today, so looking forward to making a Dubbel with this and the primary Chimay yeast cake from the Abbey Single

ATB John

[Barley Water]

Yes, the Chimay yeast will throw off quite a bit of bananna depending on fermentation conditions. In contests over here, you will get killed if you have excessive bananna and clove in a Dubbel so I am usually looking to keep those attributes down since that is the style I am usually trying to make when using that yeast. Even without the bananna/clove thing, that yeast is extremely fruity but I like it and it makes for a very different tasting beverage. I have noticed that when my beer is young it displays those tastes but they seem to fade away after a while, I'm not really sure how that works though. I will probably try a Single a little later in the year so I read you post with great interest. You should try playing around with fermentation conditions just to try and see what other flavors you can coax out of the yeast, I'll bet you will be surprised how the beer will change depending on what you end up doing. Also, there is nothing that says you can't add spices if you like, after all, it's Belgian where damn near anything goes and creativity is the priority. Get thee to an ethnic market where the selection of exotic sugars and spices abound, you will really have a great time.

[jmc]

Hi Barley Water
Thanks for your suggestions about Dubbels with Chimay Yeast.

I'm a total newbie in the Belgian-brews side of things.
I've read a lot on here and I've read Brew Like a Monk (BLAM) but that's about it.
(That is a great book )

The recipe I'm planning for my Dubbel is a hybrid of the BLAM Tomme Arthur's Dubbel and lots of other Dubbel recipies I've seen on online.

To avoid banana aroma with a Dubbel would you advise starting at a lower temp say 18C like they suggest in BLAM?

A worry I have is about whether using a primary yeast cake, from a previous brew that has been stepped up to 24C, will stall if I reduce the temp to 18C for its use in a 2nd brew.
Am I worrying too much?
TIA John

[adm]

Hope it comes out good!

Wow...just looked at the thread date and this was two years ago. It must be about time for another Spring Singel then....

[Barley Water]

Well, I'm certainly no monk but I have had decent results starting around 65F then letting the temperature rise over about a week or so to say 75F or so. I also pitch a starter to make sure I have a good cell count since my Dubbels start around 1.065 or so. You mention fermenting a Dubbel on the yeast cake of a previous brew. I would do it in a heartbeat unless the previous beer was high gravity, say anything above 1.060. After fermenting a high gravity wort, the yeast will likely be beat up pretty good and yeast which is not in optimal condition will start to throw off wierd tasting by products. The Chimay yeast will give you the flavors you are looking for, the trick is to avoid getting more than you really want. There are some charts in BLAM which will give you an idea what to expect at cetain temperatures, they are worth a look. The other thing about Dubbels is that they can be cloying if not attenuated real well. That's why it's a good idea to use the sugars and also to make sure you pitch enough yeast. Remember that the yeast by products are produced in the lag phase, just after pitching when the yeast are multiplying. To keep all this down to a low roar, just pitch enough and keep the temperature low initially. After the lag phase, you can raise the temperature to ensure attenuation without messing up the flavor profile (that's why a diacetyl rest when doing lagers doesn't cause flavor problems).

Actually, the longer I do this hobby, the more I believe that yeast handling and fermentation control is the difference between good and great beer in almost every style. You will find that messing with some of these Belgian yeasts will teach you a ton about how to control fermentation to get the results you are looking for because changing the parameters has a dramatic effect on flavor. By the way, using German wheat bier yeast is in my opinion very similar to doing Belgians, the knowlege gained is transferable. Anyhow these beers are really fun to brew plus you can get crazy like I have and bottle them up with corks and wires to increase the snob appeal. I love going to parties and taking a couple of my Belgian brews. I can just sit there and open one of these and it is just amazing how quickly you have a bunch of new friends.

[jmc]

Thanks Barley Water for the advice.

My Single had an OG of 1049 (last Friday night), its down to 1008 now (Thurs, day 7) so it sounds OK to use the cake for the Dubbel on Saturday.

I may play with the Single too once I'd racked it off.
I was thinking of putting a gallon into each of 2 demijohns, one with a bottle of raspberry syrup, the other with cherry, balance to secondary.
There is some good fruit syrup from Poland available here that is just fruit & sugar.


Asda does both above and strawberry, Tesco just does the raspberry.
Cheers

[Barley Water]

If you really want to go "over the top" I have a suggestion for you concerning those syrups. Why not try making a Berliner Weiss, I have read that many in Germany use syrups added to the beer at serving time to cut the big time sour taste. Of course, I have absolutely no experience messing with something like that but then that is the stuff that legands are made of. I would be willing to bet that not many homebrewers in your little corner of the world make that kind of beer (I have only seen a couple over here and God knows we will try damn near anything). The beer itself is very low gravity so you should be able to drink a lot of it plus it should be a great thirst quencher. To tell you the truth though, one of the worst beers I ever made had fruit added to it so I guess you could say that I'm a bit paranoid when it comes to that.

[jmc]

Hi Barley Water

I think your idea of Berliner Weiss + raspberry has merit.
I've already tried a wheat beer with the raspberry syrup.I added it at secondary stage so all aroma would not be blown away. I like it & so does the wife & friends.

I tend to add syrup to demijohns then fill with beer from primary FV. It doesn't go mad, and takes a few weeks to complete but its a great colour, aroma and taste. Much better in my opionion compared to the Brewferm Framboise kit. The kit I did ended up with a poor colour, and a thin artificial raspberry flavour.
Last wheat beer +syrup I did was 1.5 bottles per demijohn (I had 3 bottles of syrup so I used them). Loads more raspberry flavour and a nice sharpness.

With the Abbey Single just done I used one bottle of syrup per demijohn (UK gallon).
I've done 2 x raspberry & 1 x cherry. They are fermenting away nicely now.
Other 2 gallons in secondary (demijohns) finishing off.
ATB John