Using a dishwasher for bottling!

[dean_wales]

Hi Guys,

I have never had or wanted a dishwasher before but we have aquired one when we moved into our new house. Its a basic Zanussi one that is relatively clean and a few years old. We havent plumbed or used it yet.

I bottle all my beer and have always struggled with the labourious task of de-labeling, soaking, cleaning, sanitising and numerous rinses!

My question is this - can I use the dishwasher to do all this? (except labels!)

I dont like the idea of rinseaid anyway, not jut bottles so I think we might not use that full stop.

I am envisaging something like this:

De-label and presoak bottles in the usual way.
Run dishwasher on a basic program with VWP cleaner/Steriliser powder to removes any detergent/grime etc
Load dishwasher with all bottles upside down. How many will fit in???
Use VWP or Ecover oxy bleach instead of usual tablets.
Run on hottest, deepest clean cycle. I think its called intensive.
Do an extra hot rinse if you guys think this is necessary?
Allow to drip dry for an hour with the door closed. This should keep them sterile until I am read and the bottles have cooled and dried slightly.
Prime, fill and cap as usual.

Do any of you guys use dishwashers like this for speeding up bottling? Im particularily interested to hear about peoples experiences using them to sanitise. Does the water and powder acually get into the bottles? I presume that its only just, do you need to use cleanish bottles in the first place?

Part of me thinks a hot cycle will clean and sterilse enough due to heat alone but I can help feel that a little VWP or Ecover oxy bleach would be needed and not harm the dishwasher. Im a greenie though and would appreciate someone letting me know if its not necessary.

I notice there is a dishwasher salt compartment that softens the water - do I need to use this and will it affect anything? The water here (west wales) is pretty soft anyway.

Thanks,

Dean.

[dean_wales]

Done a little more searching on here but can't see any definative answers...

Rinseaid is a definate no-no but cant see the salt mentioned anywhere.

I am not that fussy about sanitisation but am worried that water and cleaner wont get inside the bottles?

I am finding it very hard to judge how many standard beer bottles will fit in the fridge!

Thanks,

Dean.

[jmc]

Hi

I don't think the spray would enter the bottles, so I'm not sure it would clean them.

Using a bottle tree:

and its bottle washer:

really makes life much easier.

I normally make sure bottles are de-labeled & visibly clean before I start bottling. They are just stored away ready for bottling.

When bottling I normally
- hot water in bottle tree washer
- hot-rinse once using bottle tree washer (to remove any dust etc) just a couple of squirts per bottle normally works. I tend to change water after about 20 bottles.
- place on bottle tree to drain.
- change to Star san in tree bottle-washer to sanitize.
- 1-2 squirts of star san each bottle- can foam up a lot
- place on bottle tree to drain. No need to rinse after Star San.
- bottle

I'd make sure that you rinse out all bottles immediately after pouring to avoid yeast hardening on.
If you keep then clean like this bottling next time is easy.

ATB John

[flytact]

You'll never be able to clean a bottle in a dishwasher.
You can sanitize if you have a "heat dry" feature. That will heat the inside of the dishwasher to a temp that will create steam and sanitize.
I use Starsan myself when bottling.

[boingy]

About 25 years ago I remember my delight at discovering that I could load my mum's dishwasher with labelled bottles, run it through the rapid wash programme and that all the labels would be removed and deposited in one large sticky mess in the filter bit at the bottom....

I agree that it was not much use for cleaning the bottles though. Bottles are pretty easy to clean as long as you tackle them the same day they are emptied. Rinse them, shake them with a bit of detergent, then rinse them a couple more times. Never let a dirty bottle sit for more than a few hours otherwise you will get hard to shift crusty stuff and, if you are particularly lazy, impressive colonies of mould.

[Graymee]

Hi, I was just asking myself this question today...

I'm a domestic appliance engineer and have been for 10 years.

There is no issue with using something like VWP in a dishwasher to replace the detergent but I would advise that a good clean of the filter and housing and a pre wash using steriliser before putting in the bottles would be a good idea...If your dispenser has rinse aid in, you can adjust the setting to zero...do this before the pre wash to ensure any residual is washed away. It may also be a good idea to turn down your salt dispenser too (instructions will be in the handbook) but that may not be essential.

If you drop each bottle onto one of the wire prongs which form the "plate racks" you will probably fit in enough for a full batch. Check that none of the bottles on the bottom rack are interfering with the upper wash arm, if so, you should be able to raise the upper basket to eliminate this. If you have soaked the bottles in mild detergent and rinsed them beforehand, I think that it will work. even if the water doesn't penetrate every bottle fully, the shear volume of steam created on an intensive cycle should be enough to get into all the nooks and crannies. Also, a dishwasher dries the dishes with nothing more than intense heat (this is why you either find a quantity of water in your filter at the end of a cycle, or in some cases, the drain pump with run for a short period at the very end of the programme...it's just the condensate that has fallen of the pots.)

Using it to remove labels is not such a good idea...the paper can break down and cause blockages in the internal pipework or pump/motor but even if it is all caught in the filter, it will effect the quality of the final rinse on that cycle-hence not doing a good job of sterilising your bottles.

However, having said all of the above, I'm a total newbie to this home brew malarky. Whilst I can fully understand the theory as detailed above, I have no actual evidence to prove it as far as bottle sterilising is concerned.

Hope that helps/happy to be shot down in flames...whichever is most appropriate!

Cheers

Graeme

[Twistedfinger]

I've tried this and it didn't work out as planned. I found that the water didn't reach the bottom of the bottles and when the machine went throught the dry cycle it baked on the crud.

I soak all my bottles in Oxy and rinse well then sanitise. Really not much more hassle than loading and unloading the dishwasher.

[Graymee]

If you have soaked the bottles in mild detergent and rinsed them beforehand, I think that it will work. even if the water doesn't penetrate every bottle fully, the shear volume of steam created on an intensive cycle should be enough to get into all the nooks and crannies.

I am looking at this purely from the point of sterilising NOT cleaning. As others have said, bottles will need to be cleaned ASAP after they have been emptied to ensure that they are clean. I am currently drinking bottled ales to build a stock of glass for my next brew (only my 2nd-i did say I was a newbie ) soon after i've poured the beer, the bottle is submerged in a bowl full of fresh water with a small dose of washing up liquid. As I put them in I make sure that the air is expelled allowing the water to get right into the bottle. I have room for a max of four bottles in the bowl and as I add each one I agitate the others. This not only cleans the bottles but also removes the labels with minimum effort. I then swill them with fresh water and leave to dry.

All that I want to use my dishwasher for is to do a final sterilisation before bottling...

[Frothy]

There are dishwashers designed to do this & it may be possible to make one.
The only one I've seen is modified for cleaning laboratory glass-ware / measuring cylinders etc. and was probably v.expensive (some are £1k+)

It has been fitted with prongs instead of the rotating spray head in the bottom of the dishwasher - these are stainless and fit inside the vessel to be washed. The rotating spray head at the top cleans / sprays the outside of the bottles. Shouldn't be too difficult to modify an old dishwasher I reckon.

Frothy