Damn! Had to tip 75L of beer - ACETOBACTER!!!

[floydmeddler]

I don't want to have to walk away from this hobby.

That can't happen Floyd, besides we've yet to do beer swaps!

Hahah. I know man! We need to that. Can't swap anything at the minute though really

[floydmeddler]

I know your pain Floyd. I can't ferment anything in the house or I end up with a lactobacter infection . . . solved that by brewing / fermenting outside in the shed . . . then last year threw away 50% of my batches with Acetobacter infections (Damned vinegar flies )

Everything has been triple cleaned with Bleach followed by Peracetic Acid and then Boiling water . . . all my brewing vessels now are sealed . . . I'll stop the blighters getting in . . . So far last two batches have been clean

Jeeze, that sucks man. Yep, I think the key is to keep the fermenter air tight. Doubt I'll ever put an immersion heater inside a fermenter again. When I'm all grown up and have my own house (currently 30 yrs of age and trying to sell a one bedroom flat) I'll have a temperature controlled fermenting fridge

Hate acetobcter. Kill kill kill kill kill kill

[Ditch]

(Damned vinegar flies )

Thanks, Aleman! That's what I was looking for, as I re read this thread: 'What in hell's causing it?'

So, it's the dread 'Vinegar Fly' that I remember hearing about, in a past life. When my then wife made wine.

OK, well, aren't they just about impossible to keep out, without the vessel's hermetically sealed? Only, this gives me an idea. Have ye seen these various brands of 'Wheelie Bin Fly Killers' now on the market? I have a load here, fellow Pest Controller send over to me. I also saw some in the hardware shop the other day.

They're basically a sort of replacement for 'Vapona' strips. I don't suppose they could take out an entire room though. But, I'd bang one up next to my FV's, as another precaution in the arsenal.

Must say; I'm still a bit 'curious' about how it is that ~ seemingly ~ only Floyd and his mate are being stricken. I mean, if it's the season for these flies, how come we're not all going down like bowling pins here? How come I blast away, in a room easily and clearly accessed by all manner of insect life, with FV lids slung at the FV's, heater flexes draped over the rims. No Problemmo!

Is there something I'm missing here?

[floydmeddler]

I'm pretty certain this wasn't caused by the 'dreaded vinegar fly'. Apparently this stuff is in the atmosphere floating around like yeast.

[196osh]

That picture is mine and it was not acetobacter I don't think, did not smell any vinegar at all. More like fart and arse.

[floydmeddler]

Have another beer fermenting now and the lid is screwed on TIGHT! I gave it a 24hr steep in Richies, swirled boiled water round it for 20 mins then rinsed with star san. Been ages since I've heard the bubbling of the airlock and I'll tell you what - it sounds like beautiful music!

The Acetobacter story doesn't finish there though. I was bottling my Belgian yesterday and made up a yeast 200ml starter to add to the bottling bucket. Only after I tipped it in did I discover signs of acetobacter infection in the damned starter jar!! Can you believe it? I'm just praying now that the Belgian ale will kill it stone dead as it is 10.5%. From what I've read, acetobacter can't survive above the 10% mark.

I'm also dreading tomorrow. Will be visiting my friend's to see how our other 2 batches are doing. Hopefully we saved one using the water bath method. However, the other will now have finished fermenting so we'll be able to see if it has been hit too. Please god nooooooooooo...

[floydmeddler]

Think I got this pic through google search. Is that even possible?!

It defs looks like Acetobacter. Initially there will be no smell but let for another 3 days or so it starts smelling like vinegar. Makes me sick thinking about it.

[196osh]

Think I got this pic through google search. Is that even possible?!

It defs looks like Acetobacter. Initially there will be no smell but let for another 3 days or so it starts smelling like vinegar. Makes me sick thinking about it.

Its my picture and photobucket page. Yeah I posted it here after a mild (beer style) infection. Which smelled like rotten eggs, it was horrific. I suppose the pellicle that bacteria forms is going to look sort of similar in the same with that most krausens look pretty similar.

[Spud395]

It nearly like the bank bail out over here Floyd, is there no end to it.
Wishing you luck with the rest of them!

[floydmeddler]

Not good, another 25L needs to be tipped. JESUS! The one in the water bath is looking OK though so that's getting bottled tomorrow. I do believe it's got the acetobacter purely because the stuff seems to get in everywhere. It would be odd if it wasn;t infected! Anyway, if it is, we've starved it of oxygen so it's dormant for now. I'll be able to tell in a few days time when I look in the bottles and see the white film appear. Hopefully I'm wrong though. Either way, it won't make any noticeable difference to the beer as it won't have any way advanced.

A hard lesson has been learnt boys. Never again will I ferment without the fermenter lid on TIGHT. Not worth the risk for me.

[Kev888]

This is tragic Floyd, most sorry to read about it - getting in almost everywhere including friend's brews, like a mini plague!

I suppose its difficult to say definitively where its coming from, but if its airborne you must have been really unlucky; I've been fairly casual about covering the FV with tea-towels or even leaving it open for hours here and there (though in the fermenting fridge), and got away with it for many years. I suppose it would have been different if there were significant infections about at the time though - thanks for the warning, I'll take more care from now on.

Another thing that focussed my mind on similar thoughts recently was a vacuum cleaner hose with mould in - I hadn't taken much care to clean it, it was just used to suck out hops after the boil, the wort long gone into the FV. Until i knocked it whilst taking a picture of the mini mushroom forest that had sprouted, and watched clouds of (presumably) wort-eating spores drift gently out and disperse around my kitchen... hmm.

So comiserations for all this, and the very best of luck with eradicating it!
Kev

[Ditch]

NO. I'm just not happy with this thread yet.

Something(s) about it are niggling me. I'm just too slaughtered to make a valid contribution just yet.

Keep at it, lads. Dig away. It's in there, somewhere

[jmc]

Hi Floyd

I really hope that's the end of it for you.

I've only had 1 wasted AG batch so far (due to poor sparging) and a scare from mould on a wheat beer (OK in the end).

I was really p1ssed 0ff with the one I had to pour away, even though with hindsight it was my fault and a sharp lesson in being more careful with temp control.

The mould on the wheat beer was because ( i think) I left it too long (3-4 weeks) in primary.

After mishaps, I've probably swung too far onto the other side of being uber-careful and I now get twitchy about keeping fermented beer in a fermentation bucket unless it has a really, really good seal.

I hope the water bath is the way forward. If your brew buddy has more space maybe a fermentation fridge is on the wish list?
ATB John

[Spud395]

No concilation for you floyd, but I'm sure you've saved loads of guy's heartace with lost beer.

I allways knew I was a little lax on sanatation, but will definatly keep a closer eye on things after your story.
I thought you had to be very unlucky to fall foul of an infection, obviously not1

[EoinMag]

Guys, acetobacter infection has nothing to do with sealed fermenters or not, excepting the instance where you're stopping flies getting in there, obviously you need to stop vinegar flies. Apart from that though air tight or not has nothing to do with it, it's more than likely that there is an infection in some of the equipment.

I've had one or two infections, once because I put the lid of a fermenter down on a baby chair upside down without thinking and recently because I put an unsanitised ladel into the fermenter to take a sample, again without thinking. My fermenters just have a lid snapped down on them, not even the whole way around, I don't bother with airlocks anymore because they just tend to cause issues with stuff sucking back into the fermenter whenever I move it, so I just don't bother with them anymore.

In any case, keeping the fermenters air tight is not what will solve your issues.