AG Leffe Blonde clone (pic heavy!)

[dean_wales]

Thanks simpleone,

To be honest I am trying to copy Leffe as closely as possible, if only as a target. So I would prefer to stick to a more "to style" grain bill.

I think my problem is mostly the lack of bitterness and aromatic malt. Hope tea/hop oil and some steeping is my current plan but need some advice on this from others before I dare to try it.

Thanks,

Dean.

[Barley Water]

Well first of all, you will tend to get alot of flavor "drift" as the beer matures. I do however think that tasting the product on the way is very helpful (I don't even bother measuring terminal gravity anymore, I just do taste tests). You will find that once the yeast drops out, the flavor will be quite different. I also find that carbonation adds more than you think so I guess my advice would be to just process as normal and see what happens. My attitude is essentially that once I have made the wort and pitched the yeast, it is pretty much in the hands of the Gods after that, aside from temperature control. I think once the beer stablizes you will get a much better idea what you have produced. Taste testing will however clue you to attenuation as well as any fermentation problems, I have never had a beer with problems get all that much better with time unfortunately.

As as aside, you mention that you are looking for a Leffe clone. I would submit that you might need to experiement with several different strains of Belgian yeast to really get close. I somewhat doubt that our buddies at Leffe use the Chimay yeast. It's not like making American or even British beer, the yeast strain makes a very big difference (as does your processes, the yeast can throw off very different flavors in different situations). I am also surprised that you don't think the beer is fruity, I find everything I make with that strain is and I run it a little cooler than you did with that batch. Just keep good notes and play with your processes and recipe formulation to move the taste in the direction you want to go. The thing with Belgian beers is that they are very yeast centric and it's a bit of a black art. Thats probably why I just use clone formulations as a starting place. Once I get a little experience with a particular style, I almost always start mucking around with things to suit my particular taste and it never tastes just like a commercial example but that is ok. Anyhow, all this to me is great fun, it's neat to see what you can come up with, carry on.

[simple one]

Thanks simpleone,

To be honest I am trying to copy Leffe as closely as possible, if only as a target. So I would prefer to stick to a more "to style" grain bill.

I think my problem is mostly the lack of bitterness and aromatic malt. Hope tea/hop oil and some steeping is my current plan but need some advice on this from others before I dare to try it.

Thanks,

Dean.

No probs. My two pence worth is to leave it and alter the next brew. Cheers!

[dean_wales]

Hi guys,

Well its safe to say that this brew is progressing nothing like the traditional british ales I have made previously! They were rather more predictable and safe.

Things have improved markedly since my last post...

I gave the yeast another 5 days or so at 22c (now on day 12) and when my Hop n Grape order arrived yesterday with my "thief" I was able to do some proper gravity and taste tests.

The gravity has bottomed out at 1.009 / 1.008 which is bang on. The wort colour has enrichened slightly now that there is less yeast in suspension. But it is still very cloudy and a little pale. Most importantly the taste has improved - the sweet and buttery taste that was dominant before has now subsided and allowed some bitterness through. It still subtle but not bland.

I did some more reading and can see that this is a beer that needs a good few months to condition before drinking - so that is what I shall do. This Abbey yeast works in mysterious ways!

Its now crash cooling in my spare old hotpoint fridge (about 5c at the moment). Pictures to follow at the weekend.

I will probably bottle in 4-5 days time before I go away. Otherwise it will be 11-12 days when I get back and that would be overkill wouldnt it?

Still havent decided whether to hit it with finnings or not. Am tempted not too but this beer needs to be bright and clear otherwise its just not right.

Thanks,

Dean.

[Barley Water]

Who cares how long you leave the beer in secondary? I package my beers when it is convient and have never had issues. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is having viable yeast if you plan to naturally carbonate. I generally add a bit of neutral ale yeast at the same time I add the priming sugar just to be sure I don't have a problem, especially with stronger beers which have been cold conditioning for any lenght of time. If I remember correctly, the Leffe we get over here is not bottle conditioned. I always bottle condition my Belgian stuff (except for Belgian pale ale) for two reasons. First, I think the yeast in the bottle adds a certain rustic, classical air to the whole thing. Secondly, I am usually trying to get a pretty fizzy product and it is hard to counter pressure fill really highly carbonated beers.

[dean_wales]

OK so yes slap me I am an idiot!...

I set the fridge a little too cold and it began to feeze the beer! The top inch or two froze solid before I noticed but the rest was OK.

Will this have killed the yeast or just helped to crash cool the brew better??? To be honest its still hazy!

Dean.

[Kev888]

My understanding is that only the yeast that was actually frozen should really suffer (the cells rupture as they freeze and expand); so the yeast that was just very cold should have survived (though it'll be largely inactive at cold temperatures) - but to be honest thats just my belief rather than something I know for certain.

Cheers
kev

[dean_wales]

My understanding is that only the yeast that was actually frozen should really suffer (the cells rupture as they freeze and expand); so the yeast that was just very cold should have survived (though it'll be largely inactive at cold temperatures) - but to be honest thats just my belief rather than something I know for certain.

Cheers
kev

Thanks Kev.

Thats my understanding too. I just wondered if that advice differs from yeast to yeast or whether it is likely to affect the bottle conditioning process?

Dean.

[Barley Water]

Well if it were my beer, I would assume that the remaining yeast in the beer is at least in a weaked state from both the fermenation of a relatively high gravity wort as well as having been frozen. Get a package of nice dry, neutral ale yeast (which is pretty cheap by the way) and reyeast when you go to bottle. You would be somewhat upset I'd wager if you ended up with flat beer after all the work you have been through so look at it as cheap insurance.

[deanrpwaacs]

Well if its any use to you.I have 3 girls in the family to juggle with so time is everything.
Give biab a go.I moved from kits to biab as it involved very little investment and also if you do biab,do overnight mashing.
My brew day starts at 10pm and i use a mango boiler and heat to strike temp.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... -00014.jpg
Pimped with a la,crouset lid that was a perfect fit.I then dough in.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... -00017.jpg
Put on the lid and wrap in a duvet and go to bed.
I get up at around 6.30 lift the bag.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee4 ... -00020.jpg
And start to heat to boiling and give the bag a squeeze.
From then on its the usual boil add hops then rest and chill.
I have found this such a simple method to get my head round and am now making some great beer.
Just my tupence.
Regards dean.

[dean_wales]

Hi guys,

Probably an excessive post for bottling but I know how much detailed posts with pictures helped me learn the ropes not so long ago...

Well after a good 2 weeks of 20c in the fermenter and the a prolonged week of extreme crash cooling (part freezing) this beer was finally submitted to bottles last night! I gave it 48 hours to come back to room temp first.

I used my freebie fridge to crash cool. It was donated by an elderly neighbour. Its a Hotpoint and made in the UK so it must be ancient! I had to bleach it inside and out twice to get rid of the grease and stench! Also the fermenter wont fit in with a big airlock fitted so I remove it and loosely fit a bung-bung! I have a small mini airlock to try next time as I dont think this is ideal.




A quick gravity check shows 1.010 which is slightly higher than the previous FG due to the amount of priming sugar (photo order a little backwards!). Note my shiny new thief from Hop n Grape!




I used a mixture of Leffe/Hoegaarden big 750ml bottles, a crate or so of regular 500ml bottles and one huge novelty 1.5L Grolch bottle! The chaos was only allowed to start once mrs was in bed early (we had just driven back from Birmingham along the M5-of-hell so she and little one were tired!)

This is my set up, its fairly common. I siphon from the fermenter into a bottling bucket fitted with a little bottler attatchment. Then cap with a bench capper.



I am not the best with hygiene but on my bottling evenings I try to go to town with the sanitizing of everything including the kitchen! As always most products from the Malt Miller with odds n ends he doesnt sell from Hop and Grape.



To prepare my bottles (which had been outside and were a little grotty) I made up 6 Gallons of the powdered sterilizer/cleaner fairly strong with warm water and filled all the bottles to the brim and left them for a few days. When ready to bottle I then empty them with a vigourous shake and a couple of good rinses with tap water. I have found this better and easier than cleaning with a bottle brush.

To sterilise the bottles, caps, buckets, siphons, taps and everything else I use Peracetic Acid at 20ml per litre of water. One litre is plenty for a bottling session as I put some in a sprayer and the rest I tip from bottle to bottle as I go.

Given the sparkling nature of this brew it needs a heavy but accurate dose of priming sugar. I use brewers dextrose for priming as its not very expensive and dissolves/ferments more readily than the regular granulated sugar I used to use. According to the handy calculator this 6 Gallon or so batch will need 150g of sugar to achive the 2.5 COs volumes needed - seems a lot, hope those bottles can take it!



I mix the sugar with some boiling water from the kettle and stick the jug in the microwave for 5 mins to ensure its sterile. Once its done I start racking the beer from the fermenter into the bottling bucket adding the sugar solution once there is an inch or so in the bucket. I dont bother letting it cool.




Beer racked leaving nothing but a fairly thin yeast & break cake.



A shot of the beer during racking, its still being stubborn to clear but the colour is bang on I think and it is early days for this yeast.



I lift the bottling bucket onto the worktop and start filling bottles with the bottler.



It wasnt easy with the big bottles as its only just long enough and the bottles are really concaved but it works OK, just.




I fill all bottles first and while they are awaiting capping I place the caps on the bottles to keep dust and airbourne summer bugs out.

My bench capper is probably the best purchase I ever made! I bottled a batch with one of those hammer-it-on capping tools - I did it once and only once as it was a nightmare! Note that I needed to use a big 29mm and small 26mm adapter to cap this mish mash of bottles.




All capped up and no where to go. Note my motley crew of crates!



The last bottle or so of beer went into a jug for my own taste and smell tests...

... Initial impressions - It has come on leaps and bounds but still isnt there yet. The colour and aroma seem very close to a Leffe blonde. Taste wise its more difficult as the beer is warm and flat and should be cold and fizzy. I find that sparkle changes taste a great deal. So for now I can only say that its very pleasant and my initial worries have faded. I would say however that the increase in batch size has left the hop bittering/flavour a little low. The fruitiness of using the Whitelabs yeast in a warm ferment is now more evdent and very pleasing.

Fingers crossed for a successful bottle conditioning. I will update with a final picture and taste test in a couple of weeks or so when hopefully it will have cleared and sparkled and I can test a bottle properly from the fridge.

Thanks,

Dean.

[simple one]

Looking forward to seeing the final brew in a side by side comparison. Good thread.

[dean_wales]

Although I think the true taste test will be some way off (from reading online) I can see it clearning well in the bottle this morning. About the top third is gin clear so far.

In a week or so when its carbonated I will do a few side by side glass shots and tastes.

Thanks,

Dean.

[oz11]

Great post and pics re. the bottling!

[llannige]

That's an excellent post for anyone new to bottling.

The 2 items which I think are the essentials for bottling being;

The bench capper and the little bottler stick.

Top stuff.