Water Treatment. Very Confused!!

[Nofolkandchance]

I’ve looked up my water report from Northumbria Water to check what treatments I need. The report only gives me readings for Alkalinity, measured as HC03 with my average value being 63ppm based on 12 samples, and, a calcium content which is given as an average of 44ppm over 4 samples.
According to Brupak I then need to convert HC03 to CAC03 so I divide the 63 by 1.22, therefore my alkalinity expressed as CaCO3 = 52 (51.6)
With regard to the calcium content as I understand it, I multiply my original alkalinity (52ppm) by 0.4 to give me calcium in ppm. Therefore 52 x 0.4 = a calcium content of 21ppm (20.8ppm)

So, after all that, based on brewing a pale ale/standard bitter that requires alkalinity to be between 30 to 50ppm, and, needing a calcium content to be between 180-220ppm am I right to assume the following water treatments.

Carbonate Level: As my CaCO3 almost hits the target of 30-50ppm (52ppm) I will require little to no CRS water treatment in order to adjust carbonate levels?

Calcium Content: As my calcium content is 21ppm, this falls way short of the target. As I already have 21ppm I need an extra 159-199ppm. From the Brupak table below based on 172, the nearest figure, it suggests I will need at least 1grm per litre of DLS water treatment?

DLS 0.1 0.2 0.3 0.4 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1.0 1.1
Calcium 16 31 47 63 94 109 125 141 156 172 188

Are my calculations correct as this is very confusing!!!

[vacant]

You may be confused but you got the calculations right.

Now just fill me in, Brupak says the volume of water to be treated is the total liqour (mash + sparge and quote 30 litres for a 25 litre brew), Murphy says it is the brew length (pdf) (25 litres). Anybody?

[Aleman]

Treat the Total Liquor with CRS

and Treat the brew length with DLS

[vacant]

cheers

[Nofolkandchance]

Treat the Total Liquor with CRS

and Treat the brew length with DLS

Thanks for that Aleman, Im still confused So If I have a total liquor of 30 ltrs, but a brew length of 23 ltrs (I assume were referring to the fermenter volumne) Do I only treat 23 ltrs with DLS?

The Brupak site says mix with the dry grains at x grammes per ltr of liquor that is going in the mash tun, then treat the balance of the brewing liquor with x grammes per ltr. So if I had an intended amount of 10 ltrs to go in the mash tun and another 20 that I sparge with what goes into the boiler, I treat this remaining 20 lrts adding to the boiler?

Am I misreading this?

[Bobba]

Treat all your water. So if you need 30 litres, treat all 30.

[greenxpaddy]

Once you have removed your hardness, this post may help with your checking your calculations.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=45225&hilit=caco3#p475250

[gnutz2]

Send your water to murphy and son labratory and they will tell you whats in it and what you have to add or take away.

Ive just sent a sample of mine, it costs £17.50.

http://www.murphyhomebrew.com/laborator ... at_27.html

[Nofolkandchance]

Send your water to murphy and son labratory and they will tell you whats in it and what you have to add or take away.

Ive just sent a sample of mine, it costs £17.50.

http://www.murphyhomebrew.com/laborator ... at_27.html

Im even more confused now after clicking on that thread Sample going off to Murphy's pronto!

[greenxpaddy]

Light. Bulb.


I have always treated my grist rather than the HLT water because that is common practice, citing the quite high insolubility of the salts.

I was pondering on my last brew why the mash ph was too high (5.6) even though I always meticulously calculate the water treatment. Plus I did an acid rest. It did not make sense.

Then it occurred to me that 100% of the water treatment was added straight away when there had only been added say a quarter of the total liquor. This was step mash so the first dough in will be totally over treated. Even with a single stage mash no more than half the liquor will normally be added for saccharification rest.

Consequently I would advise caution to anyone adding their water treatment to the grist all together.

I would split the water treatment once mixed up thoroughly into additions for each mash stage and lauter. If you don't, odds on you will have too much carbonate for the mash ph you need. This might explain why my stout is my best brew, and subsequent wits have not had the same feel as the first when I had not added any water treatment at all.

[fisherman]

Treat all brewing water with CRS including topping up water. Bu if your brewlengh is 23 litres ( in your fermenter ) add 1grm per litre. e.g. If you make a 23 litre brew and you are going to use 11 litres of mash water in your mashtun add 11grms of DLS to the dry goods ( none to mash water ) and the remaining 12 grms of DLS to the boil. Making 23 grms in all.
good luck

[gnutz2]

Treat all brewing water with CRS including topping up water. Bu if your brewlengh is 23 litres ( in your fermenter ) add 1grm per litre. e.g. If you make a 23 litre brew and you are going to use 11 litres of mash water in your mashtun add 11grms of DLS to the dry goods ( none to mash water ) and the remaining 12 grms of DLS to the boil. Making 23 grms in all.
good luck

I dont copy?

I treat ALL my water with DLS, so if im using 36l of water in total i'll treat for 36l and end up with 23l in the fermenter.

So like your example, add 11l worth of DLS to the grain but after that i would add 25l worth of DLS to the boil.

If you are copying the mineral profile form a region then ALL the water will contain minerals, surely?

[Nofolkandchance]

Quick update.

I did as suggested and had a sample of my tap water analysed at Murphy’s. I received a somewhat belated report yesterday and the readings fall into the Minimum banded zone in the published Minimum, Average and Maximum readings from Northumbrian Water. Confusing to me as I was expecting it to fall in the average zone but not so!
Anyway the 2 main results I should look for according to Brupak were as follows;
Alkalinity as CaC03 = 38
Calcium as Ca = 47.20
Not sure what impact the other readings such as hardness; nitrate, chloride etc will have (are these important, I don’t know???)

Anyway, Murphys suggestions are 21.75 grams of DWB per 25 litres of beer to be made, mixed in the mash.
What’s the learned opinion on this? I assume It’s a quick fix as “actual” readings will no doubt change on a frequent basis with having the water company quoting Min Ave Max values

Edit: I meant DWB

[vacant]

Alkalinity as CaC03 = 38
Calcium as Ca = 47.20

Are you sure that alkalinity isn't 138?

[Aleman]

I dont copy?

I treat ALL my water with DLS, so if im using 36l of water in total i'll treat for 36l and end up with 23l in the fermenter.

So like your example, add 11l worth of DLS to the grain but after that i would add 25l worth of DLS to the boil.

Murphys quote for a mineral profile of the wort in the FV, therefore if you treat for the total volume of liquor after the boil the minerals will have been concentrated, and you will end up with a higher mineral profile than you were expecting.

If you are copying the mineral profile form a region then ALL the water will contain minerals, surely?

That is always assuming that the brewers are actually using the mineral profile that is quoted in the homebrew literature