First attempt with lager yeast

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Lugsy

First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:21 pm

It's about time I tried to make some kind of lagered beer and I managed to pick up a vial of WLP838 (South German Lager) for the bargain price of £2 from Rob :D

My cellar is currently holding a stable temperature of 12-13C so is just within the optimum fermentation range and I've got a fridge for lagering in. I've got 4kg of Vienna and 4kg of Munich to choose from for the grist along with 70g of Saaz, 100g of Tettnang and 100g of Mittlefruh for hopping. Now I just need a recipe, any suggestions? I'm happy to do a decoction to get the most out of the grains but this is my first go at a lager type beer so I don't really know what to go for. Oh, and my water's pretty hard so I might be forced to use bottled water to get the alkalinity down a bit.

All suggestions welcome as usual, even if it means buying some more supplies in.

Cheers,

L

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Barley Water
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Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Barley Water » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:31 pm

There are a couple of beers you might like that would use up some malt for you. I make a Munich Dunkel that is almost 100% light Munich, a couple of ounes of Carafa II for color and about 4oz of Melonodin malt. The stuff comes out really well every time and I just love it. If you want to go a bit lighter, do 100% Vienna malt with an ounce or so of Carafa II for color, again a really nice beer. Of course, you want to use German noble hops for bittering. By the way, I have medium hard water and it is similar enough to Munich water that I can use it straight from the faucet (filtered of course to get rid of the chlorine). As far as mash ph goes, I use that 5.2 stuff, especially with lighter beers where the malt doesn't lower the ph as much and it works great. If your water is really hard (like Burton water) you might then want to cut it with some distilled water. In my opinion (and I know a few people who will argue this with me) the only style that uses really soft water are a few of the pilsners, but even then, not all of them need the really soft stuff. Alot of ions in the water will however affect the way the hops come across in the beer so you should take that into consideration. Remember to pitch alot of yeast, you are not in Kansas anymore there Toto.
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:22 pm

Superb, thanks BW :D

I'm going to spend the next week or so building up a good sized starter, 2 to 4 litres I think, and then brew one of those followed by the other on some of the yeast cake. Am I right in thinking that the darker the beer the less lagering is needed? If that's the case then I'll do the Munich first, ferment it out and then lager it for three weeks or so while I ferment the Vienna. Does that sound reasonable or should I be lagering for longer than that?

So, another question: How much bittering do I go for? I'm thinking of somewhere around 25 - 30 IBU's, maybe 75% of the hops at 90 minutes and 25% at 15, does that sound OK?

greenxpaddy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by greenxpaddy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:52 pm

If you could wait a week or so I will have a huge quantity of Wlp800 destined for the drain unless someone wants it - from a 100l batch

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:04 pm

Yes, I can wait!

If you can package up enough for a 5 gallon brew and send it I'm happy to pay the postage but you're a bit too far away for me to come and get it. Does that sound OK?

Cheers,

L

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Barley Water
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Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Barley Water » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:57 pm

The time related to lagering is gravity related, not really related to the color of the beer (the bigger the beer, the longer you want to lager). I think its a great idea to use the yeast more than once, I do that almost all the time. There is one caveat however, you really don't want to reuse yeast that has just fermented a high gravity beer because it has just been through the wars and may not be in the best shape to do another brew. So, if you are going to do a Vienna lager and a Dunkel, do the Vienna lager first because the O.G. on that beer should be roughly 1.048 as versus say 1.055 for the Dunkel. By the way, 4 liters, not 2, you will end up under attenuated if you just do 2 (been there, done that, got the T-shirt). Finally, as to hopping I would just do a bittering addition with the dunkel and yeah, 25 IBU's will get it. The Vienna can be hopped a little more with some flavor and aroma hops but I haven't brewed any since last year and I've slept a few time since then so I don't remember what the hop schedule was on that stuff. Once you do those brews and they come out well, try a pils or helles, that will give you a very good idea about your processes as any screwup with those styles are really easy to pick out, it will make you a better brewer. One more little tidbit about lagers, get your wort down to about 48F before you pitch, the bad yeast by-products which mess up the flavor are generated during the lag phase when the yeast is muliplying, to keep these down you want to start with a low temperature. Anyhow, good luck and have fun.
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:16 pm

That's great, thanks for the help BW. I'll start with the Vienna then. Provisional recipe for 20 litres:

Weyermann Vienna 4000g
Carafa Special II 25g

Tettnang 50g 60 minutes
Tettnang 20g 15 minutes

I'll begin the starter tomorrow, possibly brew next weekend but more likely the one after. Then I'll go with a Dunkel when I begin lagering the Vienna and if I still haven't messed it up after that I'll try a pilsner with the same yeast. Looking forward to brewing this one and attempting to up my game a bit :D

greenxpaddy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by greenxpaddy » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:04 pm

Lugsy wrote:Yes, I can wait!

If you can package up enough for a 5 gallon brew and send it I'm happy to pay the postage but you're a bit too far away for me to come and get it. Does that sound OK?

Cheers,

L
Sorry, missed your reply.

Let me think how I could package it and send it economically. Btw it would not be rinsed, you can do that if you want. Remind me how many ml do you need for 5 gallons.

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 pm

greenxpaddy wrote: Remind me how many ml do you need for 5 gallons.
Er, no idea :mrgreen:

Anybody?

greenxpaddy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by greenxpaddy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:08 am

Once I have your yeast requirement I'll let you know

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:31 am

Cheers Paddy :D

greenxpaddy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by greenxpaddy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:06 pm

Mr Malty reckons you need around 130ml of really thick slurry. With the postage and packing you will probably best doing your own starter. Swings and roundabouts.

Lugsy

Re: First attempt with lager yeast

Post by Lugsy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:40 pm

Yes, you might be right. Seems a shame not to use the yeast I've bought and sooner is definitely better than later. Thanks very much for the offer though, very kind of you. Best of luck with your brew :D

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