help with first lager brew

[Fil]

I have a fermentation fridge and can now try an AG lager,

I dont want to do anything too strong 5% max, neither would i like the harsh taste of a holsten pills or specialbrew.

I guess my tastes are more towards the lighter dutch lagers heiniken amstel and grolsh.

can someone suggest a lager newbie recipe for a 2--25 brewlwngth?

many thanks in advance

[Barley Water]

I don't know how experienced you are but a light Dutch type pils is a very difficult beer to make. It's not the recipe, that's easy. Make a 1.048 O.G. beer with primarily pils malt and maybe 10-15% adjunct (I would use corn grits myself and do a ceral mash but flaked corn will get you there also). Hop the stuff no higher than maybe 25 IBU's and use only German noble hops. I believe you can get liquid Dutch lager yeast although frankly I have never used that strain.

Making beers like this is all about good technique, if you screw up or get sloppy, you taste it. First of all, make a 4 liter starter (that's right, 4 liters). If you underpitch, you will not attenuate and you want the beer pretty dry. Also, underpitching gets you fermentation by products, that's a problem. I like to make back to back lagers so I can use the yeast from the first beer to avoid making up two starters (do the smaller beer first).Oxigenate the wort really well, don't just shake the fermentor, you need O2. You also might benefit by using a yeast nutrient since the beer will have adjucts, anything you can do to make it easy on the yeast is a good thing. You need to get the wort to say 48F before pitching and if I were doing it, I would ferment at that temperature. Oh yeah, good vigorous boil for 90 minutes to get rid of the DMS (if you get a probem here the corn in the grist will accentuate it). After two weeks in primary, you should be almost fermented out, I would recommend a diacetyl rest at around 65F for 2 or 3 days before going to secondary. I would say 4 weeks lagering will probably get you there, longer might be better but I suspect you will hardly notice the difference. Finally, you need soft water for this type of beer. If your water is mineral rich, it will cause the hops to come off as harsh. Also, hard water is alkaline which causes the mash ph to be too high when using all light colored malt, you may have to adjust for that. By the way, if you sparge with alkaline water (especially if its above 165F) you will pull tanins from the grain and that will for sure screw up the beer.

It may seem that I am trying to scare you off from trying this however that is not the case. I think that making beers like this really helps you fine tune your technique and if you can master a beer like this, everything else you make will be better as well. I remember when I started making lagers and I have made many of the errors I mention above so most of my comments are experience based. I have a CAP (which is similar to a Dutch lager but bigger and more agressively hopped) on tap right now which came out pretty well so it's definately worth training yourself up to make this kind of stuff, have fun.

[Fil]

thanks Barley water, im not scared off, the only thing that is concerning me is my water.. I have looked at my water report but after my first ag brew came out tasting great after a boil to remove temp hardness and a campden tablet I have not looked into water treatment further. Yet! now s the time perhaps...

This does sound like a less forgiving venture than an s04 palemalt based bitter. but i am comfortable enough with my equipment to be able to tackle something less forgiving.

I was planning on using a pump to help recirculate the wort for cooling round the chiller rather than stirring for 20mins on the next brew, so this should improve the wort oxygenation if i direct the return correctly to make a good splash.

ive managed to hit the correct strike and mash temps fairly consistently after a few early errors, and my plastic boiler works a treat to get a good fast boil going and keeping it on a single element.. Im still a novice ag brewer, but you dont learn if you dont stretch out a bit..

And with the fridge i have to tool to set the ideal fermenting resting and lagering temps

I can do a 4l starter, ive only made up 3-500ml ones before, but can just keep doubling it up dont i?.. starter starting gravity 1040? or higher to match the target gravity? 4l is a hell of a diluting volume..

However i dont think i will be doing this on my next brerw day,, as i have a bit of checking up to do, not just on water treatment but German noble hops and pilsner yeasts..

i am on a bit of a single hop run at the moment mainly to help educate my pallet as i now have access to these flavours, and the descriptions used to describe their attributes is beyond my understanding. beer tastes of beer . im still the pleb when it comes to beer i know what i like but i cant explain why. is there a noble german hop that could hold a beer on its own?

[CestrIan]

Hi Fil.

First of all don't be afraid of lager. You've got a temp control brew fridge so this should be a cinch! +1 to Barley water all good info, although I'm not sure we need to know about his dutch cap! I wouldn't recommend adjuncts though and especially not corn!! But that's personal preference. Some sugar is ok to lighten body in beers above 5% ABV, but don't go above 10% sugar and no need for low ABV beers like 4-5%.

Don't make starters higher than 1040 to match OG of your brew, 1040 is a nice gravity for yeast to grow in your starter. A 4L starter is needed because if you pitch at 10C which is ideal, then growth is slower down at that temp. Underpitching creates off flavours if they are stressed, so plenty of yeast and low pitching temp. I have tried to pitch at 14-15C before and it just creates bad flavours that means more work to clean up at the end of the fermentation.

WRT water I bought a salifert testing kit off eBay which is used for fish tanks. It told me what I already know. I live in the north west and we have soft water, so making pale ales and lager are fine with just a campden tablet. For stouts I need to add calcium chloride. If you live in an area with hard water then you might have to use CRS (carbonate reduction solution). It's worth checking your water and pretty straight forward. However if your pale ales are better than your stouts then you've probably got soft water and vice versa.

With the mash I wouldn't muck about. Just straight infusion for 60 minutes at 64-66C. Pilsner malt is well modified these days and doesn't have to be step mashed. Don't bother double decocting on your first 50 lagers anyway - boil for 90 minutes as pilsner malts contain DMS (dimethyl sulphate) which is bad and don't partly cover the boil; it's in the vapour that condenses on the inside of the lid.

Grist/recipes - I would recommend experimenting with pilsner, vienna and munich malts and different ratios of each. It's not going to make the grolsch that your after... it's much much better without the diacetyl and skunked taste that come with lager made quickly and put in green bottles. With malt always go for Weyermanns in a lager, a little bit more expensive but this is a lot of work to make a decent lager and the best raw materials are worth it in the end.

Hops - Saaz is great on its own or with hallertau - there are several varietees - mittelfruh is good but hersbrucker is my fave and that's good on it's own too. Tettnang is also great!!! Plenty to experiment with. Don't go mad on late hop additions 7-10g is plenty and try to keep bitterness 20-30IBU. Less is more with lager!!

There are lots of yeast to experiment with but WLP830 German lager yeast is a popular steady choice to start with.

Good luck!

Ian

[fego]

I've got a summer garden party to cater for and thought some lager would be a nice choice to offer so I've bought a couple of lager mash kits from the Copper Kettle to save me the hassle/expense of buying more than I need up front because everything comes in the bag. I did one before and it turned out ok, but that was early in my brewing life before shiney, temp control, water treatment, yeast cultivation and experience so I'm hoping these will make a difference this time.
Might be worth a ponder. Only £17 with free delivery http://www.copperkettlehomebrewing.co.u ... /533-lager

[Fil]

Cheers fego im still pre shiny, just invested in 2 big approved for boiler conversion PP buckets so am just venturing into dedicated hlt country.. tho it will still be a fair weather patio brewery.. that kit could be a simple approach to take, what are the kit instructions like? how detailed?

Ian, what can i say, thanks for the benefit of your wisdom on the subject and the encouragement. I am now more convinced than ever that i should be looking at brewing a continental style beer, i have got very comfortable in the routine of a basic bitter brew. and this will stretch new brewing muscles. water treatment with crs and large volume starters are both new ground for me, but the info is all in here for me to look up
grolsh is just an example of a lager i drink, and have drunk a lot of recently as its the best source of flip top bottles,, as for other continental beers and lagers i like well they are all on the list bar holsten pils, special brew, tennants super, all seem to me to share an overpowering thick dry flavour?? something i would like to avoid.

time for some homework..

[fego]

.. that kit could be a simple approach to take, what are the kit instructions like? how detailed?

I can't remember tbh - I'm travelling at the mo and the kits are sat at home waiting for me. Plenty of help on here if they aren't good enough for you...